1 I have seen the video. It is horrible. The men that are shot are left lying there to suffer. After the last man is shot, the terrorist goes back and starts shooting several rounds into each soldier execution style, like the Mafia. The beheading part is gruesome, similiar to Armstrong's in that they are quiet and you can hear every "cut" and "sound" the knife makes. God help us all. I don't know what the answer is. Well, I do, but most of you don't agree with me.

2 These guys make the VC look like school kids. Way to go, Bush, way to create the perfect setting for another Dien Bien Phu (check yer history).

3 I will nuke Mekka, I will kill each and every motherfucking Muslim, and oh yeah, wanna know what toilet paper do I use? It's the holy quran. Everytime I go to take a dump, I tear a paper from Koran and then wipe my ass with it. I also wrap it around my dick while I masturbate.

4 "I also wrap it around my dick while I masturbate." Obviously you don't have any balls with that dick cos you're sittin' at home doing dick all, no pun intended. While don't you back up those bigs words with some action?

5 Geek Fight! Geek Fight! You too Dave, good job with the history lesson. Go vote.

6 Ok this doesn't really have to much to do with the video. But, I assure you its FOOD for thought. I recieved this in an email this morning. I am SURE I will hear from a few discruntled Atheists but This is one of the better e-mails I have received in a long time! THE LAW IS THE LAW So if the US government determines that it is against the law for the words "under God" to be on our money, then, so be it. And if that same government decides that the "Ten Commandments" are not to be used in or on a government installation, then, so be it. And since they already have prohibited any prayer in the schools, on which they deem their authority, then so be it. I say, "so be it," because I would like to be a law abiding US citizen. I say, "so be it," because I would like to think that smarter people than I are in positions to make good decisions. I would like to think that those people have the American Publics' best interests at heart. BUT, YOU KNOW WHAT ELSE I'D LIKE? Since we can't pray to God, can't Trust in God and cannot Post His Commandments in Government buildings, I don't believe the Government and it's employees should participate in the Easter and Christmas celebrations which honor the God that our government is eliminating from many facets of American life. I'd like my mail delivered on Christmas, Good Friday, Thanksgiving & Easter. After all, it's just another day. I'd like the US Supreme Court to be in session on Christmas, Good Friday, Thanksgiving & Easter as well as Sundays. After all, it's just another day. I'd like the Senate and the House of Representatives to not have to worry about getting home for the "Christmas Break." After all ~ it's just another day. I'm thinking that a lot of my taxpayer dollars could be saved, if all government offices & services would work on Christmas, Good Friday & Easter. It shouldn't cost any overtime since those would be just like any other day of the week to a government that is trying to be "politically correct". In fact.... I think that our government should work on Sundays (initially set aside for worshipping God...) because, after all, our government says that it should be just another day.... What do you all think???? If this idea gets to enough people, maybe our elected officials will stop giving in to the minority opinions and begin, once again, to represent the majority of ALL of the American people. SO BE IT........... Please Dear Lord, Give us the help needed to keep you in our country! 'Amen' and 'Amen'

7 What ever is happenning out there in Iraq is truly unjustisable...the way of killing those civillians by those so-called freedom fighters are insane,why they can't kill or fight with the army....because they are so coward...who prefer to hide their shameless face...tide the victims and praying the god then slaying slowly....fucking heartless beast! they are making their own country as hell...

8 Loved it, Andrea! Maybe a copy should be sent to Congress? Ya think? :-)

9 DAVE: Americans are not french.

10 NUKE 'EM! THE ANSWER IS NUKE 'EM!

11 I have made my feelings on the videos of the beheadings known in previous posts. I can understand people's revulsion and I can also understand why other people might not want to see them. What I can not understand, is that once a video has been viewed , why you would want to view each successive beheading video as though it were a new release of the latest blockbuster. Do no continue to feign shock or outrage at these acts. Its dishonours the dead and gives the terrorists even more notoriety. It gets boring reading the same posts from the same people who have watched every video. Can we be a shade more adult in our posts and leave the bathroom jokes out. If that is the level of your contribution, then perhaps you should find a blog where those kind of comments are welcome.

12 I have made my feelings on the videos of the beheadings known in previous posts. I can understand people's revulsion and I can also understand why other people might not want to see them. What I can not understand, is that once a video has been viewed , why you would want to view each successive beheading video as though it were a new release of the latest blockbuster. Do no continue to feign shock or outrage at these acts. Its dishonours the dead and gives the terrorists even more notoriety. It gets boring reading the same posts from the same people who have watched every video. Can we be a shade more adult in our posts and leave the bathroom jokes out. If that is the level of your contribution, then perhaps you should find a blog where those kind of comments are welcome.

13 James: In response to your last sentence: Maybe YOU should!

14 Laura .....I have read some of your posts and the reactions they attract. You are not a very popular girl are you. I have also read your complaints to Randy, such as "why is everyone picking on me?" Perhaps its a little late to send you to charm school, as you know what they say, you cant teach an old dog new tricks. However all is not lost. Next time you make a post, instead of writing down the first thoughts that come into your head, sit down and think. Organise your thoughts into coherent sentences. We can agree to disagree as that is what makes a debate. Hysterical slanging matches benefit nobody not unless of course you're just looking for attention and revel in the notoriety of being a contrarian.

15 LMAO, "Randy"???? Fuck off, James. I know where you're coming from, and I don't really care what anyone thinks of me on this blog...this is but a small portion of opposing views that is, fortunately, not the views of the majority of the US.

16 Hang in there girl, Laura!!! LOL Question for anyone, first time I have heard of the Army of Ansar Al-Sunnah, that's not the new name for Zarqawi is it? Just confused not dumb//so no bashing please!!! If this video is anything like ARmstrongs, I don't want to see it. That Poor man will remain in my mind forever and his suffering. I just wish all the Iraq men and women would make a stand against these terrorist, and help us out a little bit more...I feel sorry for these Men, they did make a stand, where and what were all the people doing that saw them getting kidnapped???? LETS STOP THE BABYSITTING by the coalition......STAND UP AGAINST THESE MURDERERS OF YOUR OWN MEN IRAQ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

17 Andrea, Can you add on there they should have to pay social security and draw it also upon retirement, maybe get medicare.........do you know they recieve their last paycheck amount every month like a regular payday for the rest of their life???? Thats Bull!!!!!!!!!

18 My first visit to this site, and first read of these "messages". Amazing to see so little knowledge of Iraq history. A question, what is the difference between Shia and Sunni? Who formed the Baath party? USA lost the Vietnam war because of its ignorance of the people of Vietnam. The Western world will lose this war because of its TOTAL ignorance of Arab history. And another question AFTER you have researched, what is the USA hoping to gain by being there?

19 God have mercy on these souls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

20 JAMES: It's seldom that I watch the videos. I have watched three. I was angered enough to last me a life time. On this we think the same. I don't believe I need to see more. I believe you are wrong to knock others who wish or need to watch them. They have their individual reasons. Maybe they need reminders more than others. Perhaps they are showing them to friends or family. I think the videos should be required watching. It shows what the Islamic enemy is like and the need to stop them.

21 ROD LYONS: Assuming that the readers on this blog don't know the silly little kindergarden examples you have given simply means you are not anywhere close to being an intelligent contributor. I disagree with many on this blog. However, I believe most have gotten past the 3rd grade. You obviously didn't.

22 Grey Rooster: Not quite sure what you mean about Rod Lyons "not anywhere close to being an intelligent contributor." Can you answer any of his "kindergarden" questions? Can you see similarities between Vietnam and Iraq, and U.S tactics - or lack there of? Ignorance is not bliss. You may have advanced past 3rd grade scholastically, but it does not appear so mentally.

23 i dont like killing but what the hill r the americans r doing in iraq now?

24 You Dont know a thing about islam !!!!!!!! the thing is american soldiers didn't came for freedom They Came for OIL OIL OIL the killed thousends of iraqi people and you think that the war is a FREEDOM????? are you CRAZY Or WHAT!!??

25 FUCK YOU BASTARD MUSLIMS. GET BACK TO THE FUCKING STONE-AGE, SHIT TO YOUR IMAMS,MAY YOUR MOSQUES BECOME URINALS-IT'S THE ONLY USE FOR THEM.

26 look im only 16 year of age in my mind one word is going on that why people of iraq doing that . i will tell u u will be in iraq what will happen to u one strang contry will acctack to u r hame u r sons and raping with u r girls .then these people are doing write {ansar-al-sunna

27 Change your terminology. "Beheaded" is not the correct word to use to describe what these savages did. Read on about what Dennis Prager writes... ---------------------------------------------- The News Media and Nick Berg By Dennis Prager For those who still doubt that ideology guides most of the world's major news media, the reporting of the Islamic ritual murder of Nick Berg provided textbook examples of an almost universally leftist bias. News media have essentially become propaganda organs for anti-Americanism. We have already seen the hysteria over the Abu Ghraib abuses, with the daily running of photos on front pages and the continued news and editorial preoccupation that greatly damage the war effort. (If German prisoners in World War II had been stripped naked and humiliated to get information to save American lives, would any major American paper have published the photos during the war?) On the day The New York Times reported the savage murder of Berg -- in the most subdued fashion of any major paper in America (just one column on the front page, with a photo, the smallest of three front-page photos, at the bottom of the column) -- its lead editorial was yet another in a series denouncing the Bush administration for prison abuses in Iraq. Now, the Berg murder provides further evidence of how a leftist worldview determines the way news is presented, namely the media's depiction of it as "revenge for America's Iraqi prison abuses." The vast majority of the world's news media are so anti-American and so morally confused that they reported the claims of anti-American butchers as if they were facts. Nick Berg's murderers said their butchery was revenge for American abuses in the Abu Ghraib prison, and the world's press dutifully published this as if it were a fact (or even worse, as if it were an understandable, though admittedly extreme, act of revenge). Here are examples of the headlines -- not subheads -- in major American newspapers: "American beheaded in revenge for abuses" -- The Atlanta Journal-Constitution "Grisly Vengeance" -- The Hartford Courant "Militants avenge abuse with taped beheading" -- The Des Moines Register "Vengeance on Video" -- The Arizona Republic "With a Vengeance" -- Newsday (Long Island) Lest their readers be distracted from the real evil in Iraq -- the American treatment of Iraqi prisoners -- some newspapers actually conflated that with the Berg murder in their headline: "Amid prison inquiry, revenge" -- Minneapolis Star Tribune "U.S. civilian beheaded in Iraq; abuse responsibility in dispute" -- The Providence Journal On the other hand, the few non-liberal newspapers in America had very different headlines, making no mention of the "revenge" claim: "Terrorists Behead American" -- The New York Sun "Pure Evil" -- New York Daily News "Savages" -- New York Post "Bastards" -- Philadelphia Daily News Perhaps the starkest example of the pronounced leftist impact on news reporting is the difference between the headlines in Canada's two major national newspapers. The headline in the liberal Globe and Mail was "Murderous revenge: U.S. hostage dies in wake of Iraq prison abuse." The headline in the conservative National Post was "Al-Qaeda Beheads American." Even its subhead had no connection with the supposed vengeance: "Businessman was in Iraq to help build antennas." Furthermore, the National Post devoted all six of its columns to the headline and the story, while The Globe and Mail devoted four columns and reserved its biggest print headline to "Oil at $40 worsens the 'pain.'" Revenge? Islamists slaughtering innocents is never revenge. Was the slaughter of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl in Pakistan "revenge"? The terrorists called Berg's murder "revenge" in order to justify their savagery and because they know that the world press is so malleable and so anti-American that it will print their lie. Finally, Nick Berg was slaughtered, not beheaded. The world's news media distorted the nature of the savagery inflicted by Islamic "militants" on a young American man who went to Iraq to help Muslims. While he was indeed literally beheaded, that word does not accurately convey what was done to him. Nick Berg was slaughtered in the way an animal is. People who are beheaded have their heads chopped off. Nick Berg's head was cut off. This huge difference was completely missed by the media. Why? Because "slaughter" implies moral judgment, while "beheading" does not. Just as "terrorist" implies moral judgment, and therefore "militant" is preferred. The media's attempt to be morally neutral frequently leads to distortions of fact. The bottom line is that the United States of America is fighting the world's news media as well as Islamic totalitarianism. Until we understand that, we have no chance of winning. ©2004 Creators Syndicate, Inc. http://www.townhall.com/columnists/dennisprager/dp20040518.shtml

28 Change your terminology. "Beheaded" is not the correct word to use to describe what these savages did. Read on about what Dennis Prager writes... ---------------------------------------------- The News Media and Nick Berg By Dennis Prager For those who still doubt that ideology guides most of the world's major news media, the reporting of the Islamic ritual murder of Nick Berg provided textbook examples of an almost universally leftist bias. News media have essentially become propaganda organs for anti-Americanism. We have already seen the hysteria over the Abu Ghraib abuses, with the daily running of photos on front pages and the continued news and editorial preoccupation that greatly damage the war effort. (If German prisoners in World War II had been stripped naked and humiliated to get information to save American lives, would any major American paper have published the photos during the war?) On the day The New York Times reported the savage murder of Berg -- in the most subdued fashion of any major paper in America (just one column on the front page, with a photo, the smallest of three front-page photos, at the bottom of the column) -- its lead editorial was yet another in a series denouncing the Bush administration for prison abuses in Iraq. Now, the Berg murder provides further evidence of how a leftist worldview determines the way news is presented, namely the media's depiction of it as "revenge for America's Iraqi prison abuses." The vast majority of the world's news media are so anti-American and so morally confused that they reported the claims of anti-American butchers as if they were facts. Nick Berg's murderers said their butchery was revenge for American abuses in the Abu Ghraib prison, and the world's press dutifully published this as if it were a fact (or even worse, as if it were an understandable, though admittedly extreme, act of revenge). Here are examples of the headlines -- not subheads -- in major American newspapers: "American beheaded in revenge for abuses" -- The Atlanta Journal-Constitution "Grisly Vengeance" -- The Hartford Courant "Militants avenge abuse with taped beheading" -- The Des Moines Register "Vengeance on Video" -- The Arizona Republic "With a Vengeance" -- Newsday (Long Island) Lest their readers be distracted from the real evil in Iraq -- the American treatment of Iraqi prisoners -- some newspapers actually conflated that with the Berg murder in their headline: "Amid prison inquiry, revenge" -- Minneapolis Star Tribune "U.S. civilian beheaded in Iraq; abuse responsibility in dispute" -- The Providence Journal On the other hand, the few non-liberal newspapers in America had very different headlines, making no mention of the "revenge" claim: "Terrorists Behead American" -- The New York Sun "Pure Evil" -- New York Daily News "Savages" -- New York Post "Bastards" -- Philadelphia Daily News Perhaps the starkest example of the pronounced leftist impact on news reporting is the difference between the headlines in Canada's two major national newspapers. The headline in the liberal Globe and Mail was "Murderous revenge: U.S. hostage dies in wake of Iraq prison abuse." The headline in the conservative National Post was "Al-Qaeda Beheads American." Even its subhead had no connection with the supposed vengeance: "Businessman was in Iraq to help build antennas." Furthermore, the National Post devoted all six of its columns to the headline and the story, while The Globe and Mail devoted four columns and reserved its biggest print headline to "Oil at $40 worsens the 'pain.'" Revenge? Islamists slaughtering innocents is never revenge. Was the slaughter of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl in Pakistan "revenge"? The terrorists called Berg's murder "revenge" in order to justify their savagery and because they know that the world press is so malleable and so anti-American that it will print their lie. Finally, Nick Berg was slaughtered, not beheaded. The world's news media distorted the nature of the savagery inflicted by Islamic "militants" on a young American man who went to Iraq to help Muslims. While he was indeed literally beheaded, that word does not accurately convey what was done to him. Nick Berg was slaughtered in the way an animal is. People who are beheaded have their heads chopped off. Nick Berg's head was cut off. This huge difference was completely missed by the media. Why? Because "slaughter" implies moral judgment, while "beheading" does not. Just as "terrorist" implies moral judgment, and therefore "militant" is preferred. The media's attempt to be morally neutral frequently leads to distortions of fact. The bottom line is that the United States of America is fighting the world's news media as well as Islamic totalitarianism. Until we understand that, we have no chance of winning. ©2004 Creators Syndicate, Inc. http://www.townhall.com/columnists/dennisprager/dp20040518.shtml

29 you are all slobs!!! this was sooo terrible and you are just making jokes about it!!!

30 these ragheads do not deserve to be on this planet any longer. Now they want to start a holy war over a worthless book. I applaud what the guards at Guantanamo Bay did. They only made stupid animals do stupid animal tricks. I never saw one of our troops behead any of them ragheads but I swear we should start and send them some tapes for a change. Bring me that so called holy book of theirs and I'll use it's pages as shit paper.

31 well i have seen a few pics and the videos i don't dare go near i started crying wheni saw the pictures i even had a nightmare i know that might be over board but i don't belive its gotton this bad i didn't vote for any president at the time because i didn't think that any of them were right for the job or ready i guess i was kinda right i haven't lost any one in the war in irac but i saw the news of the hispanic father who losthis son that was only 19 years old and i can say hes face theres no way of describing it my brother in law is in the coast guard hes pretty far from the war i just hope the war does not get to the point that they have to send the coast guard out there because of allthe people there losing over there in irac and lets all hope and pray this fucking shit gets better cause from the looks of it, its getting worse. thank you

32 Hello brother Sam, How can you blame 1.5 billion Muslims, because what is happening in Iraq or anywhere else? Evil is evil Dave no matter what religion or race. Aren't we all from Adam and Eve?.Aren't we brothers and sisters?. What do you know about Koran?Did you read Koran.Do you know Koran is originated from Bible?. Do you know there is no killing or raping permitted in Koran. War is only allowed as a defense your shelf and your home or country. FIGHT AGAINST TO WHO FIGHT AGAINST TO YOU,IF THEY STOP AND WANT PEACE STOP IMMEDIATELY, AND MAKE PEACE WITH THEM.( Holy Koran) Do you know Muslims believes and loves holy Jesus and holy merry?. Only different is Muslim believes in Jesus as a big prophet. Do you know Muslims believes holy Jesus will come back,and they are waiting for him? I do not know are you atheist or not. However what is difference executing a man in the electric chair or in the gas chamber if they are murderer ,or pervert,or trader? I hope this massage make sense for you my brother. Ikra

33 send for me adress site ansar all soneh

1 I'm literally sick. My only hope is this.. My husband is currently serving in IRAQ, actually just over the Kuwait border and he said that the Terrorists have nothing to gain on these issues of holding women, especially Margaret Hassan taking into consideration her status in IRAQ. This "possible" Polish American woman taken into custody has shocked me. I guess we all know this, but he gave me hope in how he described it. They will lose power if they kill her and really demean their status. I hope he is right, its not only the women but all hostages that have my heart and prayers. By the way, my husband is coming home in 4 wks, I've never been so exicted or thrilled. I'm one of the lucky ones, he calls me about every day, I get emails as well. I just thought I'd share. Take care all!

2 There they go again demanding Dr. Germ and Mrs. Anthrax be released. Could it be that Zarqawi and company have thier hands on stockpiles of pre-cursors?

3 God bless and protect your husband, Susan. I hope he makes it home safe. I am shocked...I just finished hearing about the 11 Iraqi's...the radio said a video was released showing one soldier beheaded and the other shot...then the Japanese guy...now a Polish woman? WTF?? Now, Poland is in on this too! Remember Bush, in NYC, using a bullhorn, and telling the New Yorkers, "I hear you, the world hears you, and the poeple who brought these buildings down will hear us"....why is everyone so against Bush NOW??? He promised the Americans he'd find the terrorists, and that is what he is doing. You have to start one country at a time. And this weapons business? Saddam moved them cuz he knew the US was coming. And they COULD be used to take down planes, buildings etc....to me, that's WMD.

4 Laura, what the hell are you talking about. Now saddam moved the tons of weapons that are missing. Yes bush made his bull horn speech and i have to admit. That's on that i did enjoyed. But since then thousands of young men and has died because of it. And there are more terroris in Irag than there were In 2002. So you can continue being brain washed by that son of a bitch....

5 People its much easier to find weapons on the black market than it is made out. The afican subcontinent you can by a Kanas rifle for several hundred USD's, RPG's 200 USD's and the rockets for 50 - 100 USD's. This doesnt even to talk how freely weapons flow in the philipenes, north Iraq, South and Central America. The whole trick is OPPORTUNITY and LOCATION. If we hope to keep the repeat use of military surplus hardware and equipment in any attack is (drum roll please) BORDER CONTROL ... you the good old front door's of the homeland. Since our government's over the years have taken the NIMBY attitude about it nothing has been done and nothing will happen no matter which of the two clowns parading on TV win. Its up to empowering with MONEY the agencies/dept that matter, not enslave them to another master: Border Patrol, INS, Coast Gaurd, NORAD. They will execute all these people before Tuesday just to sway voters one way or another. In the end its not going to matter who is in that country to "Help" just as a country can clean the slate as they did in Iran, Turkmenistan, or even Russia it will happen in Iraq. You cannot change the way countries with powerful warlords will guide themselves, in the end they will go towards Iran and that will be the end of that and hopefully we can turn our attention to defending OUR OWN COUNTRY and not nation building in places that do not give a shit if we are there in the first place and will change the way things work the second we leave. For more detail look at what has happened in the spheres of influence for all these failed Imperialistic powers: The Roman Empire, The Byzintine Empire, The Ottoman Empire, The British Empire, Pre-Czarist and Czarist Russia, Imperial China, and finally, The Soviet Union. They have gone the way they wish ... we should know a bit we did that with The British Empire.

6 Do you honestly think we can fight terrorism w/o the loss of some lives? Get real! If Bush sat back and didn't go to Afgahnistan and Iraq, everyone would be calling him a pussy, who didn't want to get involved. Now we are involved, and no one likes it. Who likes going to war and seeing our soldiers injured and/or killed? NO ONE DOES but that is the price of war! I see Bush is ahead two points....let Kerry keep bashing Bush...it's all he's got to go on. I don't want a stranger in the "house", do you? Especially when his strongest points are to criticize everything Bush is doing, and not mentioning ONCE what HE would do. He was in VietNam with Hanoi Jane and aided the viet cong...and he gets medals for serving there? Traitor, traitor!!! And anyone who votes for him is one, too.

7 Are alluding to me being a traitor for pointing out the obvious or the fact that no one will do anything? In either case brand me guilty and execute me if you wish ... most people with McCarthy like single track minds end up doing the best thing. EXECUTING THE DREAMERS AND THE REALISTS TO BURY THE REALITIES OF THE DELUSIONS AND FAILURES.

8 Hello Laura.....if there was substance to the allegations that Kerry was a traitor, do you honestly think that he would have achieved the position that he is in at the moment. This is muck spreading organised by the ministry of dirty tricks to raise the hackles of those gullible enough to believe anything

9 Is it me or this woman is smiling?

10 Laura- one word for you, sweetheart: BRAINWASHED. None of us are traitors- we all want best for our country. However, some of us are more intelligent, objective and informed. Sorry that you are not one. Reverse the curse (and I don't mean the Red Sox).

11 The 9/11 hijackers were mostly Saudi, with a few connections with Egypt, Jordan and other countries. They were not Iraqi and had no links with Iraq. Don't try to link 9/11 with the war Iraq - it's an insult to those who died to use their memory in this way.

12 so far all the swift boat accusers out there seem to be republicans. are there no democrats out there that served with Kerry in Vietnam? let a democrat come forward and say what the swift boat republicans are saying. I mean really, party affiliation has no bearing if what the republicans are saying is true. so far it all seems like republican mud slinging again.

13 You think KERRY isn't a traitor? LOL. The man prosted against his own people! by the way , he says he is against the outsourcing of jobs and the Heinz Company (Theresa Heinz Kerry) has over 70% of their work force overseas! Look it up ,it's a fact! You Democrats just hate Bush. You would vote for Barney as long as Bush was running against him. I know who the more effective leader is. Check the stats. We are at war. We have lost less men and women to war than we lost in the world trade center towers. ( 1,000 in Iraq and 3,000 in the terrorist act.) We have terrorists flocking to Iraq to fight and that is just where we want them. We will destroy them on foreign soil rather than having to fight them in the mainland U.S. If you still like Kerry I can't help you . You are an Idiot.

14 Bush made the decision to fight terrorist on their lands not ours. That is a much better plan than having them come and get us AGAIN. Realistically the Bush plan is working b/c the terrorists are converging on Iraq to prevent the election in January. To question is this worth the cost of lives. Put the number of American casualties in perspective. over 40,000 Americans die annually in our country in traffic accidents. To sacrifice a thousand annually for a just cause of freedom and safety of our children, family and friends is worth it. As for Kerry, I don't trust or follow anyone that is willing to risk national security by divulging information for the sake of gaining a vote. He did this in the debates and he did this to the Veterans 20 years ago. He can't see the forest for the trees, and that is no commander.

15 I agree with Adam. 9/11 doesn't have to do anything with Iraq. It just gave Bush a reason to attack Iraq. I hope, for the sake of the US Soldiers (like myself) that Bush doesn't win the election. As for the Polish woman who was captured - my prayers are with her. Oh and btw... I don't think Laura and Moses knows what they are talking about.

16 There IS someone who fought in Nam and says all the soldiers knew about Kerry...the public forgets easily. Go look on the other blogs, I think something was posted by greyrooster in response to Beaux or some name like that. I believe someone who actually SERVED then someone who SAYS it. Of course Kerry can get where he is! Anyone can! It's a known fact both he and Hanoi Jane were in nam and sympathized with the viet cong's plight. Ask a soldier who served when he did, then you will know the truth. No, you'd rather believe the NYTimes, CNN or whatever other liberal slanted media you think is telling you the truth. Look who's talking about being brainwashed now. Bush is ahead, according to early voting, what does that tell you? Majority of people believe in him and what he's doing, not the idiots here on this blog, who are but a few dozen, maybe?

17 Adam in Poland, who mentioned that Iraq had a link with 9/11? Can't seem to find where that would be relevant to this conversation. Also, people you need to check your sentence structures. I can't make out some of your sentences, b/c you either type horribly or don't know how to speak English properly. Do better.

18 Wow Laura; just stop talking. You are an embarrassment to the whole US nation. Stop talking, cause you are not making any sense.

19 Hey you in Poland? What are YOU doing for the hostage that's from YOUR country?? If Bush winning the early voting's not making any sense, then the last laugh is on us Republicans. hehehe.

20 And as for 9/11 having nothing to do with Iraq? HELLO....Iraq is tied to Al Quaeda. Zarqawi's IN Iraq and has been for awhile...he trained in Afghanistan, under Osama, and Bush went to Iraq to find ANY terrorist, no matter where they're holed up...we just took a detour from Afghanistan...not everyone's there, probably not even Osama now! Even IF there were no ties, SADDAM was a threat and we did get him. If only we got Hitler that fast, millions of lives would've been saved.

21 Sebastian you have to excuse the redneck segments of the center right. They are like McCarthy ... if anything else fails to force everyone else to see the things the way "they see it" they use personality slander and destruction. Laura unfortunatly it is because of people like you who make the rest of us conservatives look like redneck trailer trash with only one mind set.

22 YOu don't have to listen to me, just look at Rusty's blog about the link to Kerry/Viet Cong. You don't seem to blast him for his views, as he's anti-Kerry as well. Oh yeah, that's right...maybe you don't want him on your bad side, or he'll knock your ass off the blog.

23 Laura, you are reall a dumb bitch do you know that.. you have know idea what the hell your talking about. All you should do is vote next week for your boy. And shut the hell up...

24 Much of the problem with people who side with Bush and his antics is that they mistakenly link Afghanistan with Iraq. There was a clear reason to go into Afghanistan. There was no reason to declare war on Iraq. It doesn't matter how many times you scream to the contrary, there was NO reason to go into Iraq, other than Bush's personal vendetta against Saddam Hussein and US oil interests. But Bush was Hell-bent on finding a viable reason to get Saddam if it was the last thing he did. The world is less safe now than it was before Bush invaded Iraq. This is not debatable. It's a fact. Iraq is worse off now than it was before the invasion. 70 percent of the country is in utter chaos. Killings are daily, with Americans being killed every week. The world at large resents America for what it did and are nervous to be aligned with us. There's a quagmire in Iraq now, that we made. We caused this. Yes, Saddam was a dictator and yes, he subjugated his own people, and yes, he had grand desires beyond his borders. But he was no direct threat to us. Yet Bush, Cheney, et al, in all their wisdom decided on a course of action that's completely destabilized the whole region and placed residents of countless countries at risk. For what? Terrorism? Bah! Paper tiger! The terrorists we were after were in Afghanistan. That's where we should have concentrated our efforts. Now we have terrorists literally flocking into Iraq because of our actions and the desires of extremists to kill Americans to satisfy their warped vision of protecting Islam via Jihad. So what does Bush say? "We're staying the course." This maniac is so caught up in his own self-righteousness that he's become just as dangerous and fanatical as the terrorists, if not more so. Believe me, I'm no Kerry fan. The guy makes me nervous. But Bush gives me panic attacks. Kerry said this was the wrong war and everyone jumped on him for it. IT IS THE BLOODY WRONG WAR! American's are dying in Iraq for NO GOOD REASON. It's not our job to liberate the Iraqis. It's not our job to nation-build. Nor is it our job to ensure we have an adequate supply of oil at another country's expense, which, if you call a spade a spade is one of the main reasons for our involvement in the affairs of the Middle-East. One of the things that really worries me in all this is that Bush's supporters, most of whom I'm sure are good people, will continue to back him no matter what happens. They seem blind to what's actually going on. As long as Bush promotes their religious agenda he's okay in their book, even if it means being on the receiving end of the focused ire of the terrorist community. After all, you want a strong President who's not afraid to go to war when necessary and who will do whatever it takes to protect Americans from threats from the outside. The problem with this logic is that, at least in this case, threats from the outside are becoming more pronounced BECAUSE of the actions of this President. I have no doubt that extremists have hated America since well before Bush came into office. He didn't create that problem, but he certainly is exacerbating it. 9/11 was a terrible thing. I don't blame Bush for that. I do blame him for taking advantage of a national tragedy to push his own personal Iraq agenda on an American citizenry who are now paying a terrible price for his unforgivably selfish deeds.

25 Wow people, now come on, these posts are supposed to be for the comments and interests of the Polish-American woman taken hostage. All I see are barbs, comments and a few put downs towards what people are thinking on the Bush-Kerry vote. For one, cant we as a nation and extended countries try to get along on here as an example? Seems to me that we have enough of the hatred going on elsewhere. We are Americans, true and proud. No matter what happens, we all have our own opinion and will have to deal with the national decision later. We should be proud that our soldiers have fought for our freedom in the past and present and because of that we as a nation- also individual can vote respectively. Lets just talk about the matters at hand and appreciate the fact that we all have our own opinions. Its what makes us the USA. Have a good day people, others aren't. Peace!

26 Rusty, you really do need to clean out the trolls. Some of these folks come here for the singular purpose of starting the proverbial "monkey shit fight" without even reading your posts.

27 Name calling never did solve any problems, now did it? When a person knows he is defeated, the easiest thing for them to do is to cut the other person down with insults and name calling, instead of proving their argument. The hell with this blog section. I'm leaving this one to the libs.

28 Monkey shit fight! I'd love to see a monkey shit fight right now. If we could only turn all of this into a monkey shit fight. Its all about this people.... deal with it! http://www.newamericancentury.org/

29 October 21 , 2004 MEMORANDUM TO: OPINION LEADERS FROM: GARY SCHMITT SUBJECT: Kerry on Zarqawi - Wrong This week both John Kerry and his senior foreign policy advisor, Susan Rice, have argued that the Bush administration was wrong about Jordanian terrorist Abu Musab al Zarqawi. He was not a danger before the war; his contacts with Saddam's Iraq non-existent; and his relationship to al Qaeda only now cemented. Their comments appear to be based on a single Washington Post (October 5, 2004) story concerning a leaked CIA re-assessment of Saddam's ties to Zarqawi. According to that news account, "A U.S. official familiar with the new CIA assessment said intelligence analysts are unable to determine conclusively the nature of the relationship," and that the assessment was "still being worked." Nevertheless, the same official stated: "What is indisputable is that Zarqawi was operating out of Baghdad and was involved in a lot of bad activities." Frankly, the idea that Zarqawi would, first, opt to go to Baghdad and, second, operate there for some time without Iraqi intelligence's complicity, is pretty fanciful. And the fact that the CIA does not have "conclusive" evidence of that complicity is hardly a surprise given the number of spies it had within Saddam's inner circle: none. Moreover, Zarqawi's activities were hardly benign prior to the Iraq war. As the State Department's 2003 report on "Patterns of Global Terrorism" points out: The presence of several hundred al-Qaida operatives fighting with the small Kurdish Islamist group Ansar al-Islam in the northeastern corner of Iraqi Kurdistan--where the IIS operates--is well documented. Iraq has an agent in the most senior levels of Ansar al-Islam as well. In addition, small numbers of highly placed al-Qaida militants were present in Baghdad and areas of Iraq that Saddam controls. It is inconceivable these groups were in Iraq without the knowledge and acquiescence of Saddam's regime. In the past year, al-Qaida operatives in northern Iraq concocted suspect chemicals under the direction of senior al-Qaida associate Abu Mus'ab al-Zarqawi and tried to smuggle them into Russia, Western Europe, and the United States for terrorist operations. Third, the idea that Zarqawi was not "in any way cooperating with al-Qaeda" is certainly wishful thinking. Although Zarqawi and bin Laden may have had different agendas at times, there is plenty of evidence that they had a mutually supportive relationship. As Stephen Hayes points out in a piece on yesterday's Weekly Standard website ("The Rice Stuff? Susan Rice talks about Abu Musab al Zarqawi"), the Washington Post (September 27, 2004) reported: According to Jordanian officials and court testimony by jailed followers in Germany, Zarqawi met in Kandahar and Kabul with bin Laden and other al Qaeda leaders. He asked them for assistance and money to set up his own training camp in Herat, near the Iranian border. With al Qaeda's support, the camp opened and soon served as a magnet for Jordanian militants. And, as Hayes further notes: But Zarqawi did more than train fighters. According to a Jordanian indictment, Zarqawi planned a series of attacks in Jordan to mark the millennium. His chief co-conspirator in that plot was Abu Zubaydah, frequently described as Osama bin Laden's "operations chief." The Senate Intelligence Committee report says that Zubaydah was the "senior al Qaeda coordinator responsible for training and recruiting." Zubaydah, who is in U.S. custody, is often cited by skeptics of the Iraq-al Qaeda connection because he told interrogators that he thought it "unlikely" that bin Laden would establish a formal alliance with Iraq for fear of losing his independence. But the skeptics often ignore other aspects of Zubaydah's debriefing. Again, according to the Senate Intelligence Committee report, Zubaydah "indicated that he had heard that an important al Qaeda associate, Abu Musab al Zarqawi, and others had good relationships with Iraqi Intelligence." Of course, it is hardly surprising that Sen. Kerry and his campaign team would use a leak to the Washington Post to score a political point. That's politics today. But their willingness to so readily dismiss the potential threat posed by Zarqawi before the Iraq war, based on one still-in-the-works intelligence report, is more disturbing. Frankly, it smacks of Clinton-era complacency. Absent a notarized statement by Saddam and bin Laden attesting to their ties with Zarqawi, would a President Kerry have given him a pass? And if so, is that the policy judgment Americans want in a post 9-11 world? I took the liberty of quoting an article from that link, LMAO. Thanks. These people always want proof, yet when we give it to them, they call it hogwash.

30 SABASTIAN: Go back! It is impossible for you to have the same feelings that real Americans have. You obliviously have a bad case of FREERIDE. Go back to your country and count their blessings. I don't trust you in Americans military.

31 ALLEN F: And it wasn't our job to liberate Europe.

32 SABASTIAN: You are a good example of what I never trusted while serving in Vietnam. My son is currently in Iraq. I hope and pray he doesn't have to serve next to you. I don't trust you to serve in our military. You are obviously to cowardly to fight for your own country. Why should we trust you to fight for ours?

33 WAKEUP: You're a prick. That's all. Nothing more. Nothing to offer. Nothing to say. You're nothing. Attack a lady expressing her views. Real he man huh! sissy! piss on you.

34 ALLEN F: Okay. Good post. I disagree, but that's your opinion. Now that you've found fault with everything. What is your solution? I think we are fighting the war in the right place. Namely, the middle east. I believe this is a religious war. Not one of individual countries. My belief is that the Islamic fanatics are concentrating their resources in Iraq. Better there than here. I do believe if Islamic fanatics were not concentrating on Iraq we would have already had an another 9/11 or worse in America. I don't know if America and its allies are winning the hearts of Iraqi's. I do know we only get the bad from the news media. Never the good. Ever heard of a accident that almost happened? No, only the accident that did happen. I know Kerry was a traitor in 1972. I was there. Bush perfect? No. But the politician Kerry? He attempted to sell us out in the early 70's simply because he thought the anti war movement would carry him to political heights. What is your plan for solving the Islamic threat? I believe if we left Iraq tomorrow morning the Islamic religious fundalmentalists would take over the country and spread their terror from there. What would we do if we discovered that some Islamic country controlled by fundalmentalists developed nuclear capabilities? Then our only solution would be the big one. Ever thought about that. Them or us. Religious nuts have no boundaries to spread their crap. In particular Islam. The Koran teaches that a good muslim must make war on its non muslim neighbors. Now that you've found all that Bush has done wrong, which is silly, as no one man calls this country to war. What is your solution? Kerry? No matter how much you hate Bush, you could'nt be serious about Kerry. Bush! has to be the better choice. Kerry will join the French as he joined the North Vietnamese in 1972.

35 Salamander, a slimey little creature, very low on the evolutionary scale.

36 Allen.F, I agree with all that you say. You have spoken my mind to the letter. There is so much opinionated belly aching here it was refreshing to read your post. You are obviously a man/woman of letters. One wonders if you are a writer by profession. If you are not then perhaps you should consider it if you can come up with such ''writing par excecellence''. I take my hat off to you. Long live considered opinion,''put across on this blog page,or any other'',in such a civil way,with no swear words or denegration of the opinions of others or questions regarding their right to freedom of expression. I only wish that more level headed types posted on this blog page with greater frequency. Kind regards.

37 These guy's in the hoods look the stupidest ones I've seen to date. The one on the left has a hood too big for his head and the goon on the right looks like he put the hood through a hot wash cycle and its come out all lose and baggy.Lets hope they are only coppy cats that have not the wherewithall to go through with beheading her. But have the feeling they are probably going to shoot her in the head on video and only then saw her head off. Fat consolation I know but what can you say, this is all a game to them,I just wish these hostages would by now start kicking our and tell these cowards to go to hell where they belong, we know that with the law of averages so far every hostage is brown bread (dead), they must know that too by now with all the news coverage. Lets hope with the Scotish Black Watch Brigade part of British Ground Forces covering the rear of US troops they can actualy sort out Falujah and the sunni triangle and get this thing over with.

38 Hate to say it but that Brit woman is dead, the Polish woman too. Lets face it the only reason the Italian women were released is the 1 Million Dollars Berlisconi greased their captives palms with. britain and now Poland have said they do not negotiate with hostages. There is no God, all the praying is like pissing against the wind. I just hope that its quick and they die of shock before the blade starts to cut through their necks cause you know they are going to do it.

39 Anybody see the video of the 11 iraqy soldiers executed yet. Saw it last night and though I have seen them all this is right up there with the worst. This executioner seems to be realy enjoying sawing through this guys neck,pulling and pushing at the head, either that or he's been cutting that many heads off with it that its so blunt it wont cut no more.Lets get in there and get these bastards.They should be shown no mercy, do unto them as they did unto the Iraqy soldiers that gave their lives in the vain attempt to live in a democratic free society.I know for a fact that the British soldiers going up to back up the US are shitting themselves. Heard a relative saying on the british talk station www.talksport.net the other evening saying just that. Apparently because they patrolled the streets of Basra in just their red berets because over time they had won the support of the locals in relatively calm area they are now going to truy to do the same in Baghdad, big mistake. Baghdad is not only Anti American its anti any mother fucker. Guys for fuck sake get your hard hats on cause its hot up north. The guys you are dealing with are not the Shia moslems who rose up in 91 against Sadddam Hussain but the Sunni's, Sadams right hand men and Ba'th Pary and republican guard remnents. The relative on the radio show said his son is planing on leaving the last bullet for himself, his comrades likewise, rather than be captured. I say they should bring back the draft in all democratic countries and we should flood the whole of Iraq, not pussy foot around bringing in reservists and part time soldiers back and forth shuffling one resourse in favour of another more pressing one because of lack sufficcient quantity of troops.

40 Stone me what is it with this Polish Woman pictured, she appears to be smiling but that cant possibly be! Must be the old person trying to be agreeable in the face of overwhelming odds thing, you know that hope against hope thing, or maybe it's just nerves, that human instict to survive come what may instict kicking in. ' If not then fuck me she's some helluva kinda eternal optimist. I feel so helpless, can't we organise some sort of possy or special cut throat brigade of head hunters and target these bastards and cut these mother fucking coward kidnappers heads off! Ask them do they wish to be shown the mercy they did not show the innocents then when they say yes sir just say sorry dude ''Heads just a gotta go'', and rip their goddamn heads off! Ther aint no Geneva convention with these guys, just fuckin take twelve of their heads off for each one of the innocents they behead. Show them whose boss! This is a different war, a different world,with the Brits along side we should be strutting round that place like we fuckin own it,not pussy footing fucking trepidantly trying to win hearts and minds, lets fuckin kick ass big style, and where are the fuckin gemans in all this, come on we forgive you the hitler thing, just come on join us lets fuckin do them now while we can, before they come and get us in our comfortable lives in our homeland! There aint no God, keep religion our of this lets just fuckin obliterate those bastards, your either with us or against us, and if your against us youve got no rights you need to be eliminated. Only democratic governements and the people that vote them in to office should suffice! Man I'm so angry! Its no fucking good! All you wooly minded liberals fuck off out of it! Its cause of you were in this mess! If you just fuck off we can run a mock and get this job done, just Fuck, Fuck, Off Out Of It!!!

41 ** shakes head ** Laura. Did you realize that the link I posted was to an organization developed by such minds as Paul Wolfowitz, Donald Rumsfeld, Jeb bush and Dick Cheney just to name a few. This is an organization that wants “to shape a new century favorable to American principles and interests” using force first. Posting up some memo from a site like this would be like some Democrat posting some bullshit from a Kerry site. You would mock it as it would be biased. And so is this. Furthermore, why wouldn’t Bush be on this Zarqawi-Al Qeada-Iraq link like a fly on shit when its posted on the site of an organization developed by higher ups in his administration? Why wouldn’t Bush use the info in the State Department's 2003 report on "Patterns of Global Terrorism” as a rallying call to get more nations on board to overthrow Saddam due to a link to terrorists? And why would Zarqawi broadcast his pledge of allegiance to Bin Laden and Al Qeada in mid Oct. if he was already part of their group? Just points to ponder really. And just to stress, this is an organization developed by people in the Bush administration. If this info is correct why wouldn't Bush use it initially to get more support from nations of the world, why does it come out Oct.21? Is someone not doing their job, or is this misleading info?

42 LMAO: Bush did go "at it like a fly on shit"...we're IN IRAQ aren't we? The reasons he stated publicly may be wrong, but he did say after 9/11 that he would find the terrorists, and we are. It's just that slanted news media sources, such as CNN, NY Times, etc. show negative press, instead of what's really happening, like interviewing some of the soldiers that are there, the people that are glad they're there, and the Viet Nam vets that served in that war, and Know Kerry's a traitor. Sorry, if I misconstrued the whole thing. I thought you were on "our side".

43 oh where is the love, the love in your hearts,that you were born to give, promised to give,just let them live,find compassion in your hearts, the power to give and take life is the creators own, how can you be so deluded to to think you have the right to make it your own,dont you know its not too late, peace need not wait til heavens gate,

44 oh where is the love, the love in your hearts,that you were born to give, just let them live,find compassion in your hearts, the power to give and take life is the creators own, how can you be so deluded to to think you have the right to make it your own,dont you know its not too late, peace need not wait til heavens gate.

45 What is in your peacepipe, peacepost?

46 Oh just the wind of peace

47 You think these terroristic bastards want peace? They want the end of the western world! We cannot hold hands and pass around the peacepipe on this one, bro, or sis. Get that Dr. Germ whatever, and the other one, hogtie them, hang up our flag behind them, and get OJ to read off our list of requests...yeah, that's the ticket...he's sooo good at slashing throats. LMAO!

48 Yeah after what those scum bags did to the hostages I'd be with my hand right up there in the call for a volunteer to kill them. I'd cut their fucking heads right off and stick em on some fucking May Pole in Down Town Baghdad. An eye for an eye, show the fuckers we mean business they gassed all those Kurds men women and children anyways those ramalamadingdong burkah wearing oxford educated chemical scientists should be dead already for what they did. and the Geneva convention dont mean shit to me those French pussies can rot in hell this is like some sorta armageddon time we gotta act!

49 Subtley put, stormin, LOL!

50 I just can't help believin in right thought, right conscience, right action. Gotta lotta love for right minded right thinkin inviduals but all rest'em doods hold'n us back are cosying up to the devl incarnate'mself Ossama.LOL too. O.A.O

51 WAKEUP: You blind turkey. Iraq is where we want the terrorists. There now it's spelled out to you. Get it. This clown is so wrapped up in hating America and our leaders he can't see anything else. Thats the plan joker. Over there. Not over here.

52 I am convinced that we will never convince these bleeding heart libs that we were justified going into Iraq. What is wrong with people? Zarqawi fucking TRAINED in the very camps set up by Osama, was in Afgahnistan and holed up in Iraq when the US soldiers arrived. Bush went there to get Saddam and he did...osama's another problem...he's slippery like a snake...who knows where the hell he is?

53 Has anybody heard any more news

54 Nope, nothing, except MORE kidnappings. Haven't heard a word about Margaret Hussan or that Teresa, the Polish woman. My God, this will definitely be a first if they behead women now. Damn we need to carpet bomb them. Just fly over them and POOF!

55 TO JAMES, RICK, WAKEUP, PROFESSOR PETER AND THE FRAUD FROM BROOKLYNN. Now that the election is over and all the tension is gone I would like to extend my hand in friendship. I'd like to but just can't do it. Eat shit.

56 The older blogs are dying. Any news of these hostages? I see they've let the Italian hostage go?

1 This is why Canada doesn't catch any flack from not bieng in Iraq. They're doing their job in the Afghan. Oh ya and also supplying flu shoots.

2 KSTP-TV in Minneapolis had an embedded reporter & video guy with the 101st and they have actual video footage of the explosives that were at Al-Qaqaa when the 101st moved through: http://www.kstp.com/article/stories/S3723.html?cat=1

1 Japan should take whoever released the video captive as hostage for the hostage. Go back up the chain until you get the terrorists. They do it for publicity, don't let them have it.

2 If I'm a drifter...I don't go to Iraq. No way. No how. Lets hope they release him.

3 I think an old fashioned, samurai ass-whoopin' is in the future of the Islamofacists. That does not bode well for Zarquawi. The Japanese aren't to be toyed with. They make good swords and are not afraid to use them.

4 I'm not sure it's such a good idea for Al Qaeda to awaken in the Japanese the their historical sense of warrior honor. If it came right down to it, they could put Al Qaeda to shame in that area. Come to think of it, I don't think anyone wants to reawaken that sense in the Japanese. These throw-back Islamists act like they believe they invented the idea of the suicide warrior. It was considered an "art" in Japan, before Muhammed was a pup.

5 Oh God what next? Maybe something good will come out of this and Japan will do something about it. Who is delivering these videos to Al Jazeera for publication on the internet and other media sources??? That's a good start...get those bastards first, then up the chain of command until you get Zarqawi. I think his days are numbered anyway.

6 Can someone explain something to me? If we ignore the terrorists' demands and don't give in, that means that they will just continue to behead innocent civilians and workers one by one? When will this end? Since we are not bowing down to them, what else besides blowing the place to smitherenes, can we do?? I am really trying to understand all this.

7 I think that for every beheaded person the goverment of that poor souls nationality should send 1000 more troops. After awhile the terrorist will get it and stop those cowardly acts.

8 Nah, just take those prisoners they say we have, and make videos of their asses and send THEM to Al Jazeera!

9 EIBO: Actually that isn't a bad idea.

1 Dr. Shackleford-- Did you know that this post is listed on GoogleNews? Just do a search on there for "oil for food". Congrats?

2 Chinese companies, Russian companies, Russian political figures, French companies, French political figures and certian folk withing the U.N itself were on Saddams christmas card list. Furthermore, the U.N never managed to fit a gauge on Saddams oil pipes in what ~ a dozen years? I also don't trust anything Blair or Bush, Clarke or Kerry or any other politicians say.

1 "deepened its ties to Al Qaeda" you say? And everyone still thinks Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11 and terrorism? What's it gonna take to convince everyone that Bush was justified in sending troops to Iraq b/c Saddam WAS/IS a threat, and would have used those explosives we can't seem to find right now, to make WMD's to use against us???? Zarqawi pledges alliance with Al Qaeda, he trained in the camps of the Al Qaeda, under Osama Bin Laden. And the bleeding heart lib's and war haters are STILL saying Iraq posed no threat?

2 If this isnt proof that things are getting worst over there. i dont know what else to say.Now they are capturing and killing there own. Now do you really think that the Iraq's really want us over there. come on think about it. The insurgents are getting desperate. kInd of like the republicans with that stupid post about kerry being a puppet for the Vietcong..... I guess in a way we are the same. Just in a different way..

3 I believe Zarqawi came to Iraq after the war broke out as did the other terrorists fighting the coalition in Iraq. Bush said it himself in the debates that terrorists are flooding over the borders to come to fight. If they are flooding over the borders to fight that means they weren't there in the first place. Show me where Iraq had direct involvement in 9/11. I'm not saying Iraq wasn't a threat but this WMD shit has to stop. They aren't there so build a bridge and get over it. These people are killing each other don't you think if they had such explosives they would use them now?

4 Let me just say to LMAO that he is basically right. Of course, basically right doesn't mean all the way right, but it is basically right--there was no operational collaboration between al Qaeda and Iraq. However, having no 'operational' colloboration is not the same as having no collaboration. But, all the same, Saddam and bin Laden were not in bed together. But, as he already knows, that is besides the point. We find ourselves in the position we find ourselves in now. But FYI, Zarqawi was in Iraq before the war, but it was not in an area controlled by Saddam. And the vote 4 change guy has a wierd posting. If the terrrorists are 'desperate' as he claims, then we should be doing exactly what we are doing--since we are the cause of their desperation.

5 Rusty, thanks for the info. Goes to show that not every one always has the correct info.

6 f this isnt proof that things are getting worst over there. i dont know what else to say. This is what I mean by the left's confusion regarding scale and timing. 1. The capture and murder of 12 Iraqi guardsmen says absolutely nothing about the allegiances of most Iraqis. it certainly isn't an example of a popular uprising, even a small one. It's just more of the same Jihadist barbarity. 2. Although it's clearly not evidence that "things are getting worse," that in itself is not relevant... any more that the fact that the Battle of the Bulge or Iwo Jima were signs that things were "getting worse" during the latter stages of WWII. The issue is whether or not we're destroying the enemy at a faster rate than they can sustain, and there's every evidence that we are. Plus, it's just a really dumb and cowardly thing to say. I believe Zarqawi came to Iraq after the war broke out Well, you believe wrong. We know for a fact that he spent significant time with Ansar Al Islam in northern Iraq, but there's also evidence that he was a "guest" of the Saddam regime in Baghdad prior to the US invasion.

7 "Well, you believe wrong" Ya someone has pointed that out already, but thanks for coming out.

8 How can one say there wasn't a link bet. Zarqawi and Al Qaeda? He trained in Afghanistan and went to Iraq. He trained in the very camps that Osama ran! Okay, maybe he and Saddam weren't together on matters, maybe it was a fight for power bet. the two... Iraq was a threat in its own way with Saddam being there. Had we gotten Hitler as fast as we captured Saddam, millions of lives may have been saved. Granted, lots of lives are being lost since this Iraq invasion, but who's to say MORE wouldn't be lost, had Saddam remained in Iraq and in power? He was murdering by the thousand's before we even got there!

9 Looking at that photo again of the captured Iraqi soldiers, is it me, or does the one, second from the left look like a woman?? I haven't seen Zarqawi's group behead a woman..yet..Hussan would be the first I'd know about, when and if that happened...which looks inevitable, sadly.

10 Yep, all dead. I just heard on the radio that a video was released, showing one soldier beheaded and the others being shot to death. Damn.

11 Despite my own reservations of conflict in the begining, it appears there is a vipers nest of fractional terrorists forming and need to be snuffed out at source.

1 This is the best these idiots have? Explosives that are missing from BEFORE we invaded? BEFORE the 101st Airborne arrived at the Al Qaqaa ammo dump? Really liberals! This is ALL you got? When this particular Democrat presidential candidate loses in the largest landslide since Reagan beat Mondale, we need to start to use the next 4 years to take our country back from the peacenik hippie jackasses who think you toke and hug your way to a better world. We need to start dragging them from their homes and cars and slamming them repeatedly in the face with a closed fist. All of these liberal scum need to know that the reason this report is having no effect on the election is that WE THE PEOPLE know that they are the reason that America is in the situation it is in now. We also know that they are done with. Their time has come and gone and soon, they will be only a footnote in history. Annoy a Liberal; Live long, Be happy, make Money, and enjoy Capitalism. Long live the coming Conservative Revolution.

2 "We need to start dragging them from their homes and cars and slamming them repeatedly in the face with a closed fist." Yes! Half the population should kill the other half that would be sweet. Then maybe I could get another job cos I lost my last one due to outsourcing. You're brilliant dude, fucking brilliant.

3 You guys both miss the main point, which is al-Qaqa just sound so funny!! "Hey, did you store those WMD you you al-Qaqa or what?"

4 Rusty, al-qaqaa, al-caca, NYT, CBS - same thing.

5 Shit Rusty your sense of humour is just too hard for me to get. But, I'm still trying. Oh ya my bad on the half of the population killing the other half. I forgot some people don't vote.

6 So which half do we kill? The ones that vote or the ones that don't? Seems to me six of one half a dozen of the other.

7 Actually I have no problem at all with the progressive sentiment. After all, how would you characeterize the liberal/whig revolution, of which the American Revolution was the most extant example, except as "progressive" in the context of Royalist Mercantilism. The issue is that by falsely rewriting history in our so-called "progressive education system" we have created a generation or two of Americans who have no idea at all about what that Revolution was for, or what really motivated it. And hence about 50% of the country thinks that a professional dissenter, and all-but-proven traitor, will work just fine as Commander in Chief. I agree that we need to rebuild the education system from the ground up... but note that even without knowing why, the majority of Americans become whigs or classical liberals by the time they reach their thirtys, even though virtually all of their teachers and professors have been unacknowledged quasi-Marxists. There is hope yet.

8 Regarding the "Qaqaa = Caca" reference, I think the Arabic letter that is variously interpreted as a "q" a "c" or a "k" may, in fact, be an Arabic "qaaf", which is an "emphatic consonant" pronounced by placing the back of the tongue against the soft palate. It ends up sounding only vaguely like a "K, Q, or C," although it's frequently mispronounced. It is unlikely, if pronounced correctly, to sound very much like the spanish word for infant excrement.

9 Rusty: 380 tons of explosives could have been easily hauled by 14 semi trucks. Average load per 52 ft trailer is about 50,000lbs. Which makes your point even clearer.

10 Greyrooster: Thanks for the observation. I used the 40 trucks figure, because that's what Josh used, but you're right the figure is probably too high. Also I don't know how to clarify the fact that Rusty didn't make that post. Apparently there's some glitch in the way the blog is set up that doesn't allow the actual author to appear on the tag line, nor is the actual author listed underneath the title as is the case with other Movable Type blogs. But I did post a note at the bottom in bolded indicating that I was I, rather than Rusty, who is responsible for the mathematical, accounting, spelling, grammatical and logical errors.

11 You guys seem to think that these things come in nicely designed boxes taking up all available space. Lets say a warhead with accompanying mechanisms weighs 1,000 pounds but takes up 40'x 6' x 6' of the trailer. Shit, that's most of the trailer, leaving 49,000lbs of available payload weight. You must be engineers.

12 LMAO" A 40' by 6' by 6' warhead. Are you nuts? You've obviously never been around one. Do they fire this out of a 16' sub tube? or maybe a aircraft. Whatever you're taking QUIT NOW. Warhead? What warhead? They were talking about explosives. You've lost it. Talk about rambling bullshit. You're the champ.

1 Again, you totally misrepresent the Kerry position. It is perfectly legitimate - read, not overly nuanced - to authorize force if it becomes necessary, and continue to believe it NEVER BECAME NECESSARY. This is such an obvious logical point, I can't help but think that partisanship blinds worse than the sun.

2 I know that u and most of the visitors here are die hard republicans . it's ur duty to defend Bush and attack Kerry ( have no problem with that...) But it would not hurt to accept and admit the "mistakes" [ wmd : no one denies nowadays ] done and which is still been done [ unnecessary bombing causing civilian casualties exact Israel style( ??? ) ]. my request is don't be a " Fox News "= totally sucks being one sided!!! ****************** You people talk and defend you Army. What do they do there now is clear from their interviews. They aren't doing any service to your country.They are just trying to earn their livelihood and trying to defend and protect their own comrades .That's it!!! And the latest setback( very sad news ) bout the massacre of the 45 soldiers just shows the poor intelligence the Coalition have!!! Under their nose a batch of 50 people being corned and been executed one by one is the most alarming incident till date!!! ****************** Yesterday I watched a young 11th std girl who was being interviewed in a Kerala [southern state of India] satellite channel for her work in peotry. one question was asked to recite one of latest peoms regarding present events. It was about maimed iraqi child.The poem was so touching that it did bring tears to the womenfolk ( not trying to be dramatic ). It just shows how a girl who just have access to local media=( who gives a damm of what's happening in Iraq) and lives in different part of the world can convey the horror/grief of Iraqi civilians to the public My point is that we know why the US is not winning any hearts and minds of any1 within Iraq and around the world irrespective of religion/race It's never "too" late to change.

3 Well, I had the Team America experience tonight. Fuck yeah! Hey, LMAO, I bet you'd hold one in your mouth!

4 Mr. K: Good for you. I'll bet that you're willing to chip in your buck-oh-five, unlike about 49 percent of our population. When you decide to start your own blog, let me know and I'll blogroll you ...

5 Suffering from a clear loss under the post "Kerry Lied,Jawas Died", Mr.K starts off Round 2 with some more thought provoking and intellectually articulated insults. Any bets on who will take this round? LMAO - 1, Mr.K - 0 ....round 2, fight!

6 LMAO- You are clearly a Pussy. But take heart, Dicks like me will always be there to help keep you from becoming an Asshole. If you had seen the movie, you would understand that I was actually paying you a compliment on being a team player.

7 HAHA, yes dude I love the insult upgrade. You just pass your GED? I figured it was from the movie but I've yet to see it so wasn't too sure. I'm still reeling from the fact we share the same views about the Kerry/Vietnam docs. Don't get to googly eyed over it though. I'm your Huckleberry.

8 I am horrified about those documents either way. If it is true, he should be tried for treason. How could such a traitor be a senator and possible president? If they are forgeries, how much lower can politics in this country get? What is a GED? I am just a simple guy...I really never should have tied it up with an elite liberalectual.

9 GED - http://www.acenet.edu/clll/ged/index.cfm Fuck it K! You've inspired me. I'm gonna do my damnedest to go see Team America tonight! liberalectual? You've been watching too many presidential debates. These vietnam docs. smell of conspiracy theory wet dreams. I hope the Repulicans get a fat guy in a clown suit (a la M.Moore) to do a documentary on it. I'd settle for Tucker Carlson though. But you're right (oh shit did i say that) either way you look at it, whatever outcome, shit will hit the fan.

10 It really sucks any way you slice it..and check out Drudge's latest on CBS's plan to run a "big" Bush bash on election eve. Thanks for the GED link. Coming from you, I was pretty sure it stood for "Gonad Engorged Democrat" but you can't be too sure.

11 I should change my name to LMFAO after that one. The best so far.

12 If you have been eating Big Bacon Classics, I guess the "F" stands for Fat.

13 Professor Peter Von Nostrand, Kerry's position on this war is simple and, he stated himself. "Wrong war, wrong place, wrong time." Class is over.

14 Hahaha.. Ya, I guess if you were going for a PG rating on it.

15 LMAO- no matter what your politics, go into that movie with an empty bladder or you will piss yourself in the theater....

16 RS - You nailed it with this one. I don't think I've read anything so dead on point as this. Defintely - Go Broncos.

17 ROOPESH the preacher. Now a person from India is preaching to Americans about the plight of little girls. We don't kill little girls simply because they're girls and not boys. We don't sell children for organ transplant market. We don't set fire to unwanted daughter's in law. You're right. Never too late to change. Get your own house in order before preaching to America. Has my friend Daewood from Bombay (Mumbai)contacted you yet? P.S. Please don't come here. Stay in your own correct country. If you try real hard I'm sure you can find something wrong there.

18 When it comes down to it we will pull out with no appearent victory and claim victory just like in vietnam....we will have nothing to show for this war but thousands of american lifes loss and hundreds of thousands of lifes lost in general...and a national deficit sooo unsustainable we will enter a new area of cost puch inflation......we are already starting to see the begining of this happening with the depreciation of the us dollar to all time lows due to fiscal irresponsibility.....even if we won in Iraq....what will we have to show for it. our economy will be fucked and there will just as much terrorism in the world

19 Hey all i can say is that Kerry lost the election, which shows that Bush knows what he is doing and certainly most of the people do to since he has now been re-elected. I just think that it has been going on a little too long, and what i would really like to see is us go after Bin Laden. After all, on video tape and everything, this IS the guy who attacked us. I agree Saddam was a nut and surely needed to be captured. But the man who cowardly sent men to fly planes into the Trade Center is still on the loose, and i believe that we should focus our attention on him right now.

20 "...it was the Poles who were attacked by Germany and not the British." Ever heard of the Battle of Dunkirk?

21 The war in IRAQ is necessary and president bush is doing the right thing. However, I think there is to much politics involved in the war in IRAQ. We need to take the gloves off of our military personnel over in IRAQ and or pull them out and drop a ATOMIC BOMB like done to Japan when they decided to rise up against the US people. China, North Korea etc and others whom opress human rights should be obliterated without the politics of tyeing hands behind the enforers backs. Anybody get in the way, step on them like a big toe. Our freedom in this country is being slowly taken away by the miss fits coming from other underdeveloped countries in our world. President Bush, needs to strengthen his "tough luv" and get on with the show and get out of IRAQ, let them rebuild there own country and pay back all the money the TAX payers in this country have paid out to save them. In other words, all the free oil we can muster to put our country back on its feet. Mr. John Kerry is a "Pussy" along with his running mate... However, Al Gore and running mate would not have been any better.

1 Uh oh! I already own a fake Louie Vuitton! Does that mean if I go to Canal St. in NYC that all those Chinamen selling knock off's are funding Zarqawi's group????????? Yikes!

2 HOnestly and sincerely, one of the big problems with the whole terrorist thing is that they use just about any and all illicit channels to generate operating income. The 9/11 hijackers supplemented their AQ funds with income from cigarette smuggling.

1 It's true folks the Raelians have cloned an undisclosed amount of John Walker Lindhs, taught them french and then sent them to Iraq to fight the americans in retaliation against Bush not allowing stem cell research. It's hard to digest, I know. But it's true.

2 "We consider these people dangerous because those who go will come back once their mission is accomplished," Excuse me, but once the Coalition and the ING accomplish their mission these guys are nothing but worm food. Don't worry France, the US will cover your nut. We always do.

3 Glad the little shit got killed.

4 Thanks for the link.

5 God, how boring! The continual attacks on France are gettign tedious now. At first it was quite funny, like watching a two year old constantly throwing toys out of his pram. Now it just smacks of racism and intolerance. Get over it for God's sake, there are better targets to attack.

6 A FRENCHMAN IN A FIGHT??????? Oh! Thats right, this guy is really a Tunisian.

7 I wonder if this little creep had his mother and father's blessing on his adventure. 19 years old? Wonder who paid for his plane ticket. If investigation reveals that the family was supportive, will the French expel them back to where they came from? How about it French forgivers? I'll bet the frogs won't even investigate.

8 I have in the past thought that the war in IRAQ was wrong that we should leave it to the IRAQ people to deal with.But they have shown to me now that they are filthy animals and desewrve nothing but to be herded and held in pens to be sorted.The weak hide behind the scarfs and kill real humans who try for what ever stupid reason to help the IRAQ people AS GOD IS MY WITNESS I WISH THE BUSH WOULD JUST NUKE THE WHOLE COUNTRY AND RID THE WORLD OF THE FILTH THAT WE HUMANS CALL IRAQ

9 Actually the french are concerned about Jihaders and have broken up several recruitment cells in Paris suburbs. You guys should drop the anti French comments. It is more than just "PC intolerant", its plain stupid and could directly and indirectly cost Americans their lives both in Iraq and elsewhere. What if the next tip to preventing a terrorist attack in Boston originates with the French police in Marseille? We are going to need all the help we can get in our efforts to stop the Jihaders. Only fools who have nver been in a fight themselves make enemies with poout a valid reason. Read the Bible for a good lesson on needless offense.

1 Sorry Rusty, but you're dead wrong on this one. Bin Laden is in Afghanistan. There are no al Qaeda members in Iraq. Wrong war. Distraction. Eyes off the ball. Etc. I heard this on the news, so it must be true.

2 this will hit some nerves... Arabs no longer want "devil they know" Mon 25 October, 2004 15:12 By Jonathan Wright CAIRO (Reuters) - In U.S. presidential elections Arab leaders usually prefer the devil they know over any candidate challenging the man in the White House, however much they view the incumbent as an overbearing partner. But as Americans choose between U.S. President George W. Bush and Senator John Kerry on November 2, analysts say many Arabs wonder whether anyone could be worse than a U.S. president who occupied Iraq, aligned himself with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and turned his back on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Bush, they say, has also blotted his copybook by repeatedly ignoring Arab opinion and advice on foreign policy and launching a heavy-handed campaign for reform which has earned him credit only with a tiny number of middle-class liberals. "I don't believe that anyone worse could possibly come," said Mohamed Habib, deputy leader of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, one of the Arab world's most influential Islamist groups. "The only difference that might tilt the Arabs towards the Democratic candidate is... that there is a belief that it really can't be worse," added Walid Kazziha, professor of political science at the American University in Cairo. "Bush is a lost cause for most Arabs... Kerry might do better, especially if he does disengage from Iraq," said Mustafa Alani, senior adviser at the Dubai-based Gulf Research Center. A section of Arab public opinion either says "a pox on both your houses" or prays that the U.S. electorate will give Bush a public humiliation. But some Arab analysts say a Kerry presidency really could be better than the last four years. They do not believe the Democratic candidate will instantly withdraw U.S. forces from Iraq, recognise that grievances lie behind much Middle East violence or try to impose a two-state peace settlement on Israelis and Palestinians. In fact many of them say that Kerry's few remarks on the Middle East are disappointing indicators that he would continue many of the pro-Israeli attitudes which have alienated so many Arabs and Muslims from the Bush administration. He favours the U.S. boycott of Palestinian President Yasser Arafat, supports the barrier Israel is building in the West Bank and says that "Israel's cause must be America's cause". IMAGE PROBLEM

3 Leo, Zarqawi is a known Al Qaeda who trained in the camps run by Bin Laden. True, he's Jordanian, but he's in Iraq NOW and that is why we need to get him and the others. How do you know OBL is still in Afghanistan anyway? He could be anywhere by now.

4 Proof by their our addmisson that Islamics are not only killers but thieves also. They also bugger camels.

5 Laura: I was mocking John Kerry. This is all one war -- unfortunately the person who least gets this is the Democrat candidate for president.

6 Leopold: I got it. And it was funny. IRAQ: Now we're using what muslim clerics say to decide what Christian president we elect during a war of RELIGIONS?

1 I have seen the video. It's apparent the poor guy was dead before they showed the actual beheading, thank GOD. It was almost as graphic as Armstrong's in that you saw it closeup, and when they cut his neck, they turned his body upwards so that the camera could get the blood rushing down on the ground...horrible, horrible. An Iraqi? What's next? A child? Why do they think that by killing their own kind, it will bother us as much as killing one of ours?

2 All non muslims are targets and any muslim that does any kind of business with the West is a target too. That pretty much puts the terrorists in the minority to some degree methinks.

3 To pissed off to comment.

4 You just did! What's it gonna take, people? Too late to keep debating over our reasons for invading Iraq...we're there now, what next?

5 And al-sadr's people are negotiating "peace" or did I misread what they are doing? It is really "piece" -- a piece of this person, pieces of that person until they get their perverted way. This is beyond pissed off-able.

6 Sorry, my bad. That's not sadr's people like it makes any difference. Peace = human pieces to any of those terrorists.

7 "It's apparent the poor guy was dead before they showed the actual beheading, thank GOD." I'm afraid he wasn't. He is quite alive at the time of the beheading. You can see his trachea moving as they slice into his neck. This is one of the most sadistic exectutions in that they don't finish the job quickly but allow him to breathe and suffer for moments before each slash. (Yes, for those of you who choose not to view these videos, I'm giving the "radio" version here). What I found weird was the line drawn around his neck, it was present on the part of the video before his exectution and is present as they commence the chopping. Was this REALLY a "guide" for the executioner? Does this suggest that these guys were beheading virgins? Oh man, let's get this US Election out of the way then nuke this hell hole to smithereens. Really, the rest of the world won't miss it. Innocent civilians dying you say? Yeah, that's a shame but in order to die, you must first have a life. These people have no life under the threat of this kind of terrorism.

8 Sorry, but I think he was dead....you didn't hear him scream or move or anything....and the place where he was beheaded was not where he was sitting when he gave his statements. The neck looked discolored, ashen, as though the person was already dead, not a fleshy, healthy color. Regardless, dead is dead no matter how. Bigley, I feel, was shot in the head...look at the puncture wound to the forehead.

9 Red I do agree with you! Unfortunately, the bleeding heart libs from the UK think Iraq was an "illegal invasion" and I have given up trying to convince them it wasn't...see the Kenneth Bigly Video Blog...anyway, Saddam was definitely a threat and would have used the WMD on us if we didn't go there first. In fact, I don't believe we would even be discussing this on the blog, as we all would've been blown to smitherenes by Saddam. Anyone who thinks that WMD, just because they weren't found are not there, is a fool. Saddam hid them, he knew we were closing in on him. And what about Zarqawi? Isn't he in Iraq and beheading people? I'm sure this shit was going on way before our invasion, they are just using the videos as propaganda to make us think it's because we invaded them....they don't want to see Bush in office again... Hell, I don't think they care about anyone, they are beheading their own people and Hussan has been there for over 30 yrs. helping their people!!! Fuck them and their "innocents"!!!! If they can't escape the damned place, too bad. Make it a parking lot already.

10 stop making an issue about things like this and they'll give up using it as shock value. yes, they may result to something else... but then they might get caught also...

11 I just looked at the video again. When they made the first cut, you didn't hear the guy make a sound...no scream, nothing....the sounds you hear a little later into the video sounds like someone is getting sick from watching the beheading. Anyway, I still hope he was dead or drugged when they cut him. I don't know what the line was that was drawn on his neck, like a surgical mark?

12 Couple posts on my blog about that wonderful guy Zarqawi.... Post 1
Post 2

13 and why, when it is VERY OVBIOUSLY a religious issue, do we continue to allow all good muSLIMs to get their bed sheet wearing asses out of their perspective armpits and come over here??

14 Here's a better headline: "Iraqi-based military wing of the American Left strikes again."

15 In the old west, horse thieving used to be popular, until we started giving everyone a fair trial and then hanging them by the neck until they were dead. Maybe we need to start something like this in the new badlands? I got to say that it is gonna be a pleasure to see what happens to Zarquawi when they catch him. My plan would be to have all the nice people of Fallujah that are not up to no good come on out so we can reduce the entire city to powder with a little old fashioned carpet bombing. I don't care why they hate us. I want them to be close enough to touch the mushroom cloud.

16 He was most definitely ALIVE when he was chopped! He didn't appear to be struggling, indicating that he may have drugged (or beaten) just prior to his execution. Laura says '...little later into the video sounds like someone is getting sick...', not true darlin. Watch the video again, you can clearly see his windpipe jutting out each time he 'grunts' for breath. They marked his neck, pulled his head up, and let him huff and puff a bit before they finish the job. They did this in the same way they did the Nepalese guy, remember, they let him lay there for a while before they finished cutting that guy up. It's all part of their 'Shock' mentality.

17 But when they started cutting, you didn't hear him scream, like the Armstrong video! Surely upon impact of that knife to his neck, he would've let out a cry, scream, something. The windpipe moving or whatever, could be the body's reaction. Ever see a chicken still strut around after his head is cut off? I'm not doubting you, I would just like to believe he was already "out of it" when he was beheaded. And lifting the head up to let the blood drain out was the most horrible thing I've ever seen! These bastards are lower than animals. Nuke the whole lot of them, the people there don't stand a chance anyway.

18 Courtesy of Randy Newman Drop the Big One No one likes us-I don't know why We may not be perfect, but heaven knows we try But all around, even our old friends put us down Let's drop the big one and see what happens We give them money-but are they grateful? No, they're spiteful and they're hateful They don't respect us-so let's surprise them We'll drop the big one and pulverize them Asia's crowded and Europe's too old Africa is far too hot And Canada's too cold And South America stole our name Let's drop the big one There'll be no one left to blame us We'll save Australia Don't wanna hurt no kangaroo We'll build an All American amusement park there They got surfin', too Boom goes London and boom Paree More room for you and more room for me And every city the whole world round Will just be another American town Oh, how peaceful it will be We'll set everybody free You'll wear a Japanese kimono And there'll be Italian shoes for me They all hate us anyhow So let's drop the big one now Let's drop the big one now

19 Mr. K, how about you go to Iraq and sing that. I'm sure they won't behead you.

20 I say we nuke em.

21 Iraq or Newman?

22 Its hard to scream when someone is holding your head back but I thought I did hear some sound on the first cut. His windpipe (trachea) is definitely moving. The way the blood pumps out suggests a still beating heart... blood congeals pretty quickly in a dead person and wouldn't flow out like that. But as you say Laura, this is all academic now. The guy is dead for sure now.

23 ANDRE: How about you go to Iraq and don't sing it. I'm sure you'll be safe.

24 I'm not going to watch the video. Seen one, seen all. I don't want to condition myself to these atrocities. Remember the muslim asshole last week who wrote that Zarqawi was a good guy just fighting for his fellow muslims. Well today his boys killed, I mean slaughtered over 50 unarmed Iraqi soldiers going home on leave. I wonder if the good muslims that VENOM talks about are going to mutilate their bodies and drag them thru the streets like they do American soldiers. I hope not. One other thing. Who in the hell sent these unarmed soldiers across the country in minibuses without an armed escort. Thats crazy. I mean everyone knows the ISLAMIOFACISTS and their supporters are trying to kill them. Stupid, Stupid, Stupid.

25 Lulled into some false sense of security? What else would explain why civilians remain there (Armstrong, Hensley, Bigley, Hassan) and countless others there to make a living and/or help the place. I heard guards were outside the home that Armstrong, etc. were living in, but they surprised him, at least that's the story I got. When you're not expecting it, even if you're armed, some of you are going to get ambushed and killed by the time the others realize what's happening. At the first sign of trouble, you couldn't have paid me to remain in Iraq. Don't get me wrong, no one deserves that, even if they remain there, but common sense people, get the hell OUT. How long has Zarqawi been holed up in Iraq? Could it be that terrorists have been there and posed a threat to us all along? If so, why did Bush use the excuse about going there to find WMD' or to help them win their freedom or whatever the hell other lame excuse? Why not just say we're gong to get the terrorists and leave it at that? Admitting Iraq didn't have WMD's when they didn't find any (didn't mean they weren't there) was a stupid action on the part of our government. There are a million other reasons they couldn't used for being there, but one will suffice for me: to kill every fucking terrorist that is a threat.

26 One more. Who is the informant who told Zarqawi when and where the unarmed soldiers were to be at? The bastard is probably on our payroll.

27 Ok, i'll go to iraq on two conditions, you come with me and we both have machine guns, preferably belt fed ones and we just go through the streets mowing down anything older than 6 years old.

28 Laura: Nuke em all, let God sort em out. Kirk Andre: They would behead themselves if they heard me sing.

29 Zarqawi probably knows every move his "enemies" make, they are snakes in the grass (no offense to snakes worldwide). These guys live to kill, for Allah, and for whatever the fuck other reasons may suit them each day. Death to all of them. Only I hope and pray they meet a nice, slooow death, so that Armstrong, Hensley, and Bigley will not have died in vain.

30 72 virgin male camels wait for those turds in heav.... errr, hell when they die.

31 Allah aka the devil never said they where virgin women, now did he?

32 It appears that once again the forces of good have beaten back the evil empire and their liberal imperial army.

33 Can anyone argue with the fact that had we done to Hitler what Bush did with Saddam, millions of lives would've been saved?? The anti-war nuts keep on believing that our occupation in Iraq is wrong and causing all these senseless beheadings, killings of civilians, etc. Is anyone that stupid to believe that that wouldn't be happening anyway had Saddam still been there? Why is America always to blame? Bush was ill advised as to his reasons for invading Iraq...surely any idiot knows that Iraq always posed a threat, and Saddam would've surely blown us to smitherenes with his WMD's that he hid so well in Syria.

34 when he put the knife on the neck and start to cut you see he doesnt even follow the line drawn on the neck, in fact he cut exactly on the thing on the middle of the neck I dont know the word in english. must be so painful to cut there. this is the first time they do that, all other beheadings they use the knife right under the chin. this time they didnt bother on blindfolding the victim. ansar al-sunnah group do way more sadistic beheadings than tawid al-jihad I dont know if they actually enjoy that I rather believe they want to fear who work for u.s. al-sunnah are evil bastards.

35 WOW hearing the comments of the " nukeing " suggestion justs shows how very well you trust ur Army's intelligence!!!! What ur suggesting is the same tactic what Army men do when their vehicle gets disable in enemy territory ..destroy it completely so that no traceis left..same thought ..right??? You people are too concerned about this poor person but have no problem in mentioning to nuke the whole place down.... for eg .quoting what's above mentioned by red devil""Oh man, let's get this US Election out of the way then nuke this hell hole to smithereens ""...so pathetic.By nuking this whole place you'll be wiping out this poor man's family too...Hypocracy to the core!!! I though agree with Greyrooter regarding the the 49 iraqi soldiers massacre..why were they sent all alone unarmed...poor planning,thought ,,poor intelligence!!!! As for Laura..comments too contradictary! Do be sorry if your house was also converted into a parking lot just because a serial killer had planted his weapon in your backyard

36 Fact of life that you would throw scruples to the wind if you were in a life threatening situation and had to defend yourself. Saddam planned to use those weapons for mass destruction...the tons of explosives that Bush never told us existed at the "secured" site...of course they're missing NOW, but why didn't Bush secure it before the invasion??? Does anyone think Bush STILL lied to us when he said Saddam had WMD? I believe that those explosives could've been used to make WMDs, hell you gotta start somewhere. I don't believe they are explosives for demolition, construction, whatever the lib's want you to believe they are. Saddam always was a threat, Bush knew that, so we got him. A shame that innocent lives are being lost every day, but that is the price of war. I don't see an end to this, unless an end comes to the country. As someone else said somewhere on here, "you have to have a life before you're dead, and the Iraqi people don't have a life with the threat of terrorism every day". It's just a slow death, had we not gone there.

37 ROOPESH: Have you met my friend Daewood from Bombay yet?

38 Zarqawi needs to be KILLED by cutting his head off.

39 Yeah, but we gotta GET him first!

40 Murderers, you will remember me long before my knife reaches the end of your useless existence. Until then, take a little time to try to understand that you are little people who have reached the lowest levels of human existence, expressed again and again by your leaders who you had misguidedly thought were the highest of human kind. Did it ever occur that you yourselves have proven worthy of being targeted in true Jihad? How sad you are to desperately try to twist your evil ways by calling your actions part of a "Holy" Jihad! Does your brain have the capacity to note that your statements and behavior classify you as "human waste" and so despicable that more and more normal humans are wondering why it is taking so long for the US government to use knowingly inhumane nuclear weapons in order to ensure the removal of the last of your shame from the face of the earth? Your thoughts are desperate and without any clue of wisdom. How many references to examples of foolery in your Holy Scriptures do you need to be able to let any light into your eyes?! A man offers your countrymen freedom and you fight that man to prevent that very freedom for your friends. A man opens the door for self-respect for your countrymen and you step in front of him, slam the door shut, and murder the man. A woman offers your poor family food and clothing and you not only kill her, you demand all those like her to stay away from your family. So, though you have already far crossed the line in my book, I give you one last chance to answer this question before your chances for breathing I will end, "Who are the victims and who has the self-serving agenda?" You have made your family and countrymen victims of your actions and you are the ones with the self-serving agenda. I have studied and have committed to memory your identifying physical mannerisms and speech patterns. I have studied the fibers of your clothing, the oils of your fingers, the food remnants from your mouth and clothing, your DNA on your murdered, and even the blade fragments of your murdered. I have paid locals to constantly carry and place in their places of business speech analyzers to catch you even a little faster than I would have without them. I know your genetic heritage and the locations of your family members. I am committed to ending your existence. I, with many others, have great resources and have committed my current energies, technologies, and field experience to narrowing my search. Your area of possible location is growing more and more refined. After your arrest, your unmasked shame will grow and grow and you will not be permitted to kill yourself, no matter how much that desire will build within you as time and the reconciliation of your evils will seemingly forever hang before your temporarily opened eyes. The family members and friends you have scarred will face you. After your death, your own family and countrymen will find your shame everywhere and they will be shamed by your past actions. You will have nothing in your last moments and nothing after. See you soon.

41 John Freeman: Oh so true. Wish I could write as could as you. Well Said!

42 I am ashamed to be a moslem, but not anymore I have trown by cooran in to the toilett at th airport, so everybody can go an piss over it. The cleaning man didn,t take it out till yet. He understand the things why this fucking cooran is there. They say: islam the religion of peace. but really is the religion of murders. The american has to trop a nuclear taktik bomb to different arabic cities not caring about the fictims other ways the terrorist are doing it to western cities. Abdullah living in Europe

43 Jesus said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life and that no man can go to heaven and be with God except through Him (John 14:6). One road leads to God, the rest lead away from Him. Those who follow this one world religion are the enemies of God and will be separated from Him in hell forever (Matthew 7:13-14).

44 I hope americans start kidnapping and beheading innocent Iraqis for this atrocity. Maybe if they know they will kill an innocent Iraqi the same way, they will stop. Death to all Muslims! They are truly the bottom of God's food chain.

45 Your faYouYourYour faithfully faithfullyr faithfullyithfullYour faithfullyy

46 The whole thing started, according to the Bible, when Abraham lacked faith in God, having a son out of wedlock. What we shall learn is that it all has to do with how importance of having faith in God and not push our own agendas, when God has already spoken with us. Be patient. However, God has become so quiet these days.Perhaps, it's the wave pollution, with satellite and other means of transmission having electronic waves interfering with God's waves. Have we interfered with God's messages? Did Jesus die in vain? Why didn't Jesus fight back and kill His enemies? It's Love. Jesus wants to show us that He dies on the cross because He loves us all. He wants us to grow up not just physically, but spiritually. It looks like Jesus has failed to convince many of us completely. 1) Are we still blind to the difference between physical wealth and spiritual wealth? 2) Are we teaching others to love by forcing our ways on others? 3) Are we practicing Christianity? Has Jesus died in vain? Is God's love applicable to current time? All these will come to pass, as no one lives forever on this earth. Can we outgrow our spiritual immaturity and achieve peace? Perhaps, it's too late. Perhaps, we need Divine intervention now before the earth is blown away and we have no more chance to grow spritually through our physical existence.

47 One thing that's not discussed in the Bible was that did Jesus have sex? If not, why not? Why didn't He have a family, be married and have children? He was here for that precious moment to show God's Love to us, leaving behind questions on sex. What is sex to God? Is it a strong bonding mechanism to unite a man and a woman, resulting in creation of more human beings? A healthy and happy baby needs both parents to care for and to be shown the way to keep in touch with God. Orgasm is not the end of sex. Parents need job, secure and healthy social environment to bring up healthy and happy children. Implication is so great that the effect can be snowballing till we see the cruel effect of abusing the intention of God on sex -- war. It's far worse than violating the force of gravity by jumping down from the high-rise building. It affects the whole human race. What we lack is the mutual respect of one another and the great regards on marriage, sex and family, regardless of race, nationality, religion.

48 1KIGNGS 18:22 ELIJAH SPOKE TO THE PEOPLE, "I ALONE AM LEFT THE PROPHET OF THE LORD; BUT BAALS PROPHETS(ISLAMIC FOLLOWERS) ARE FOUR HUNDRED & FIFTY MEN. ELIJAH SAID TO THE PEOPLE WHOMEVERS GOD ANSWERS BY FIRE IS THE TRUE GOD AND THE PEOPLE AGREED. 2 ALTARS WERE BUILT ONE FOR THE FOLLOWERS BAAL AND ONE FOR ELIJAH. EACH ALTAR HAD A YOUNG BULL STREWN ATOP IT. THEY CALLED UPON THE NAME OF BAAL FROM MORNING TILL NOON BUT NO VOICE NO ANSWER. THEY CUT THEMSELVES AS WAS THEIR CUSTOMS(SHIITES) UNTIL THEIR BLOOD GUSHED UNTO THEM.PROPHESIED UNTIL THE TIME OF EVENING SACRIFICE. NO VOICE,NO ONE ANSWERED.ELIJAH GATHERED THE PEOPLE TO HIM BUILT HIS ALTAR UNTO THE LORD WITH A BULL STREWN IN PIECES ATOP THE ALTAR.HE FILLED FOUR WATER POTS AND POURED IT ON THE BURNT SACRIFICE 3X'S UNTIL THE ALTAR WAS DRENCHED WITH WATER AND THE TRENCH SURROUNDING THE ALTAR WAS FILLED WITH WATER. ELIJAH PRAYED TO THE LORD OF ISRAEL,ISAAC AND ABRAHAM TO PROVE HE IS THEIR LORD GOD! THEN THE FIRE OF THE LORD FELL AND CONSUMED THE BURNT SACRIFICE THE WOOD AND THE STONES AND DUST & LICKED UP THE WATER THAT WAS IN THE TRENCH. THE PEOPLE FELL TO THEIR KNEES AND SAID "THE LORD HE IS GOD!THE LORD HE IS GOD!" ELIJAH SAID TO THEM,"SIEZE THE PROPHETS OF BAAL!(ISLAMIC EXTREMISTS,ATHIESTS,ENEMIES OF ISRAEL) ELIJAH BROUGHT THEM DOWN TO THE BROOK KISHON AND EXECUTED THEM THERE.SO AWAITS THE FAITH OF THE ENEMIES OF THE GOD OF ISRAEL,ISAAC AND ABRAHAM!

49 هل هذا الموضوع مطلوب

50 All Muslems are cowards and serve the devil. They cover thier faces because they are COWARDS and not of GOD. If you were of GOD why would you be in fear of covering your faces? It is clear that God is not helping you. If here were you would be victorious. You are NOT victorious. You are being beaten like women. Those you take hostage and kill are helpless. Why don't you face off with weapons and see who wins. Fair is fair. Must we wipe you off the face of the earth? Must we drop a nuclear bomb on Mecca? Must we? Americans are simpathetic people they will hear your compaints and force the US Government out of Iraq. However, when you perform terrorist acts you play into mens hands. Start thinking like wisement and not like morons who are without knowledge.

51 could you give me you site in arabic. thank you

52 Believe me people , Islam is not like this

53 Roaa you said that they are in fair because they covered theyr faces. Why does the iraqi police who is brought by the US Goverment also covering theyr faces. The us is in fear using helikopter. They are in fear to faces this army faces to faces. This army is fighting and not only take hostage!!!

54 The anti-war nuts keep on believing that our occupation in Iraq is wrong and causing all these senseless beheadings, killings of civilians, etc. Is anyone that stupid to believe that that wouldn't be happening anyway had Saddam still been there? -quote from above If the US wasn't in Iraq, how would terrorists kill Iraqi's for working with the US occupying forces? Seems a bit tricky. Also, if your trying to say that a war on Iraqi soil isn't causing more Iraqi deaths than Saddam was look a few statistics sometime. Saddam was a brutal, vicious dictator; like HUNDERS OF OTHERS in the world, many of which we still support. Does anyone think Bush STILL lied to us when he said Saddam had WMD? I believe that those explosives could've been used to make WMDs, hell you gotta start somewhere -another quote from above What manner of mystical alchemy would you use to transform explosives into uranium/plutonium, posinous gases, or viruses and bacteria? (I'm using the definition of the term weapons of mass destruction here, in case your not) Why don't you face off with weapons and see who wins. Fair is fair. -1 more quote The average Iraqi terrorist is as well equipped as a US marine or infantryman? If thats true then we're in for a world of hurt, they're doing enough damage with soviet era russian weapons and stolen arms.

1 i agree with you. They do believe that if kerry wins they have won something in this war. But who really cares what they belive. These people are so driven with hate. That they would take anything as a victory at this point.

2 "But who really cares what they belive. These people are so driven with hate. That they would take anything as a victory at this point." Wait, are you talking about the Democrats or the terrorists here?

3 Whoever wins the election....Bush or Kerry.....these pussies are still going down NO MATTER WHAT IT TAKES And that's the bottom line

4 No Jef G. I beleive it was for the Conservatives.

5 I wish you guys were right, but I think John Kerry has an unrealistic--even dangerous-view of how to fight the GWOT. As far as I can tell he wishes to seperate the Iraq war from the GWOT. It may be the case that Iraq was not initially tied to the GWOT, but it now is. Trying to seperate the two is moot. It has been mooted by the Army of Ansar al-Islam, Tawhid and Jihad, The Islamic Army in Iraq, Iraqi Hezbo'allah, etc. The two wars are the same war. For John Kerry to claim otherwise is unrealistic. He does not have the stomache to see this thing through.

6 "As far as I can tell he wishes to seperate the Iraq war from the GWOT. It may be the case that Iraq was not initially tied to the GWOT, but it now is." Not true. John Kerry has always maintained that Iraq is not a part of the GWOT, well, at least since he lost his backbone in the Democratic Primaries. Iraq has always been tied to the GWOT based upon Saddam housing and funding terrorist operations. It is only the spin after by the media and Kerry that many Americans see it as a difference.

7 I agree, Chad, but I also think it is reasonable to hold that invading Iraq was not the right thing. Why? Because the terrorists Saddam were funding might not have directly threatened us (emphasis on 'might'). However much I disagree with that initial position, I think it is reasonable. On the other hand, events have taken that original reasonable position to the realm of the unreasonable. Whatever reasons for going to war, the war NOW is part of the GWOT. There is NOW no more room to differentiate.

8 Ah, but Rusty, surely it didn't escape your notice that it's much easier to lay the smack down on Iran and Syria when you have bases of operations in Iraq as well as Afghanistan? Iraq is a means to an end, not a goal.

9 True dat.

10 This is idiotic. They think Bush is a coward for putting them on the terrorist list. And they think Kerry is a coward for criticizing Bush for taking too long to put them on the terrorist list. Who ever runs this blog obviously can't be trusted to tell the whole truth.

11 Yes ponte. Yes. These people cannot be trusted. The truth is being manipulted. That the truth would be manipulated in the final days leading up to a U.S. election is UNBELIEVABLE! I, for one, am knocked senseless by the betrayal of trust and corruption of our public discourse. Seriously. I've been knocked senseless. I've got no sense. None.

12 Figures. Awhile back,they have a group over there working for "kerry for president." Of course they want Bush dead; they fear him. As well they should but with Kerry in office, they'll have full reign. Made me sick to know they had a group over there, an office over there, that was trying to get Kerry into office "Iraqi's for Kerry" I believe the name is - what a load of shit. Like I've said before, if Kerry ever gets elected, we are in deep shit. ~Cindy

13 Jeff - the answers are the terrorists - not democrats or replublicans..........ah dah!!!! The terrorists want Kerry to win and they want him to win because they are afraid of Bush and Kerry won't follow through as Bush had done and that's pretty damn clear. (see above post) Iraqi's for Kerry, doesn't necessarily mean "Iraqi's" for Kerry but more like Terrorists for Kerry. What Rusty wrote was clear, concise and understandable. TERRORISTS WANT KERRY IN OFFICE. Delboy, one can only hope that if Kerry by some ungodly miscalculation was elected, that he'd continue the administration's work but no one, not even the terrorists see it that way. They are so afraid of Bush and think of Kerry as a wimp, they figure if he wins, they have full reign including coming here. Talk about the sending the wrong message at the wrong time and wrong war. Not only will he screw this up, he'll screw us up too and give them a better chance of coming here to do terroristic activities. You forget that during the Clinton years, Kerry voted for a unilateral invasion on Iraq. I don't know how many people keep forgetting that. They believed he was a dangerous man and had to be taken out. During those years with clinton, he dropped the ball so many times and did not pass on that information to the new president coming in (bush) that he got thrown in his lap something he was not aware of - and that's not right by any means. Kerry will be soft on the global war on terror and he will cause more allies to leave than all the ones he keeps discussing. The man is dangerous on all fronts, as is his wife, whom they say is his downfall to being president. "Who ever runs this blog obviously can't be trusted to tell the whole truth." Ponte Ponte you couldn't be more wrong. If you knew Rusty at all and been with him a long time as I have, this is one place I can go to to get the truth on all matters. So before you go putting this blogger down, start from the beginning and read through, you'll find this blog to be one of the absolute best on the entire blogospere, so if you don't know what you're talking about - don't talk. Start reading, start reading from his old stuff to his new stuff and you'll find exactly that Whom ever runs this blog obviously can indeed be trusted to tell the whole truth every single time. ~Cindy

14 Firstbrokenangel - Wake up! we're already in deep shit...

15 I mean come on... u People really need to wake.... It's one thing to have a backbone..But it's another to say when your wrong.. and this Iraq thing has gotten worst. We are not winning anything.Im not saying that these sons of b**** dont deserve to die because they do. All I'm saying is. The media is making it look like we are really doin something. but the reality is we're not. It has gotten worst over there and as long as we have station's like Fox and Bush. It's going to stay that way. We dont even have all the Allies we had 4 years ago. Wake up

16 First of all don't think I'm just saying just for the sake of the scene.Also I do not support neither Bush nor Kerry for their policies..doesn't "mean" much for me..cause I'm not from US and that doesn't mean I hate America. ***************************************************** Come to the point: This post updated by the terrorist group is surely questionable. Look at the timing of the post..Bush would be smiling by now..at least some %( whether 5 or .005 it still counts )of the voters will change their mind whether to vote for Kerry. In fact the exsistence of these terror groups are one of the "aces" or you can catalyst for Bush regaining his 2nd term...? The public isn't bothered about the casualties iraqi public is facing ..only if westerners are targeted these issues are raised.Just the comments by some people like "nuke the damm whole place " just shows that how one sided selfish minded people can be. Anyway the whole truth will be out in about 10 yrs +..by that time a whole new generation will be there least interested about the "truth" while we the present generation might discuss with alot of "ohh's " really's" shittt'ss..in whispers.... Sad but true ******************************************************* Bottom line is the whole secarios going aorund for the past year is just a eye opener of what politicians (applies to all countries) will do for the gain of power and so called "secuirty"

17 "Come on now people. Wake up." - says Iraq Bring in the clowns Rusty. Oh, wait, you already have. Has anyone caught that special that appeared last night on the "Bush Channel?" How in the world do some of you people (hint: see above) know what reality is inside of Iraq? If you listen to the media, you think it's Armageddon. If you listen to the soldiers, you think it's tough but things are improving. Now I ask you, would you take your news from a source that is dependent upon ratings to make their living (violence = ratings) or take your news from the people doing the work every day? I rest my case.

18 Good point, Chad...just breeze on over to the "Ken Bigley" blog and skim over some of the comments made by soldiers who were there! The bleeding heart lib's are still crying for "facts" and "truths" but when they are given full blown accounts of soldiers that are THERE and KNOW what's going on, they dismiss it as "rubbish" and will forever call the Iraq invasion illegal. whatever it is or was, FACT is we are there NOW...whatever mess was made or not made initially, we MUST defend ourselves. The terrorists are killing their own Iraqi civilians!!!! How can the anti-war people say that they are getting even with us for invading their country when they themselves don't give a shit about their people???? Iraq(and other mid east countries) have always been a threat, yet the Bush bashers continue to say that we were lied to, blah, blah, blah. We weren't lied to. We were just told the wrong reasons for the invasion.

19 And with this post, I see you aren't really serious about any of these subjects. By the way... still waiting for a reply regarding "Kerry's worst lie."

20 In 1971 I and many other Vietnam vets decided that Kerry was a bullshit artist and traitor. I still think so. The man has done nothing his whole life except play the political card. He stands for nothing. If the voters had listened to Kerry during the reign of the peanut farmer the hostages would still be in Iran. The Islamic terrorists and their supporters have figured him out. Kerry has their full support. What amazes me, is that many Americans still haven't.

21 DELPHIGUY: Congrats, you noticed too. It's hard to focus on the big picture when so many rats are chewing on your toes.

22 In the big plan we shouldn't forget about our future best friend. The Russians. They're tougher than the French.

23 IRAQ: If you call this deep shit, what would you call the Civil war, WW1 and WW2. We've now lost over 1000 men in a year. Most of these men were killed in cowardly sneak attacks. We have fought wars where we lost over 20,000 in a day in brave battle. America never turned then and won't now. When the average American finally gets pissed off (and they aren't yet) we'll stomp these Islamic sissys out of existence.

24 It is going to take a long time to change attitudes in the middle east. After all these folks have been wiping their ass on their left hand for at least ten centuries.

25 Nay! It will be quick once we teach them what soap and water is used for.

26 greyrooster, ummm who isnt tougher than the french? I know five year olds who eat paste, and will be making thier first colored construction paper thanksgiving day turkey's this year, and cry when they trip on the carpet who are tougher than the french.

27 In the US a few children grow up wimpish and cowardly, like the French. They become university professors. Like the French, they consider their own opinions to be more important than the genuine knowledge of people on the ground, with real life experience. Like the French, they are ignored by people who have important things to do.

28 Another excellent profession for people who take themselves far too seriously, is journalism. As a journalist, you not only report the news, you make up the news. Who the hell is going to correct you? If you're Dan Rather or CNN, you just bluster your way out of your lies, knowing the attention span of your viewer is just under 11 seconds.

29 Leucius & Rumcrook: Amen, brothers, Amen. There are a few professors worthy of their trade. I agree they are not the majority. Many are in the classroom because they can't hack it in the competitive enviroment. I'm beginning to think professor von nostil is one of the latter.

30 On the flip side, this is now an own goal for the terrorists. proud Americans who were undecided will surely see this as a reason to vote Bush - "we don't want to bow to these pigs".

31 GreyRooster and Bernie, You may be suprised to know that with comments such as the following your ignorance is comparable to those within extremist groups themselves : "we'll stomp these islamic sissys out of existance" and " it's going to take a long time to change the attitudes in the middle east. After all they've been wiping ... " (I can't even bear to reiterate that last part of yours Bernie). Your ignorance disgusts and freightens me. Are you under the impression that Iraq is just a country of all terrorists? Do you think that there aren't families such as your own (may be not as lude as yourself) existing there day to day just struggling to survive ? I think for your own sake (so as not to appear as so ignorant next time in such a sensitive debate) it would really assist you to research further into issues that you obviously don't know much about. When you are willing to group a whole people into one category of such ignorance, don't be suprised when they do the same to you. For we must be the change that we wish to see reflected. That's all it comes down to and hopefully people will understand that someday soon. Also, one more comment to Chad Evans. I'm glad that you think you are getting a true to life account from soldiers. But i wanted to share with you one thing I learned about that. They are only allowed to release so much to you, per military order. It is not accepted to express personal thoughts or opinions while giving a recountance of whats occured while under duty. Now that's not to say that it doesn't happen (for it does). And, I'm also not saying that we should listen to the media for a reliable account of what has been going on in Iraq either (obviously). If you want raw recountances of what its really like over there, search for reports from the people who are involved in the red cross and other such measures over there. This is where you can find the information that is untainted as to consciousness of a publics acceptance or nonacceptance. Let me know if you'd like any links. Peace all, Lolla

32 Oops one more thing ... You can all find the EXACT opposite of this article at Al-jazeera.net/english. This article on Al-Jazeera explains how the terrorists would like to see BUSH in office, and not Kerry. For they say that Bush makes it easy for most to want to fight in Jihad, whereas Kerry may "fool" some into submission.. etc. Please feel free to read it for yourself. Doesn't the irony of it all just tickle you? For, it doesnt matter who they say the "Terrorists want as president" folks. Can't you see that your fear is being used against you to suit another means ?? Fear is the strongest tool for coercing, my friends, (Well ok, fear and religious fervor may have a tie). Tata, Lolla

33 LOLLA: Being a peacenik is fine. But doesn't work. Tip toeing thru the tulips will not stop the ISLAMIC terrorists. Everyone knows that there are descent people in Iraq and other countries that spawn these fundamental terrorits. However, their are nice, loving, descent people in America that were slaughtered by the product of these countries. This is a religious war and those that son't see it are the ignorant ones. A country is responsible for the behavior of its citizens. If they don't stop the terrorists we have to go there at stop it ourselves. Your pie in the sky, goodie, goodie attitude reminds me of Europeans and Americans in 1935. Maybe if we give them a big kiss they will stop. The soldiers are the 1st to be attacked, the first there and yet you say don't believe them. Instead believe someone who gets the info second hand. When my son, presently in Iraq with the 1st Marines tells me how things are that's the way it is. He is not censored in that context. As far as your comment on grouping people together. They allready do. Have you ever been a soldier in a military action zone? Hell no. But you're an expert on the info. Don't believe the ones who are there experiencing it 1st hand. I wonder who's the ignorant one.

34 greyrooster: I have family members fighting in Iraq. I lost a cousin (Marine) there. Your statement about other wars losing 20,00 men in a day: Who the hell cares how many are lost in a day to brave battle. My cousin is still dead and I couldn't care less about the circumstances. I get the info 1st hand and all I hear is how much of a mess it is, with no end in sight over there. Heaven forbid you lose your son, but if that happens I believe you would change your tune soon. All this tough talk about stomping the islamic sissies out of existence. You lose a son and my guess is you put on sandles and start singing Koombaya

35 "For we must be the change that we wish to be reflected....." Great point Lolla. People read this....but do not consider it. They are too angry. Nothing will change.

36 Hello, can't help but reply. "How in the world do some of you people (hint: see above) know what reality is inside of Iraq? If you listen to the media, you think it's Armageddon. If you listen to the soldiers, you think it's tough but things are improving. Now I ask you, would you take your news from a source that is dependent upon ratings to make their living (violence = ratings) or take your news from the people doing the work every day?" I take my news from Iraqi friends -- the normal little people who are seldom heard on the news. According to what they say, are things better? In the sense that technically they have more freedom and a different type of hope. But at the same time, many are starving, they live with post-traumatic shock disorder, terrified to go to the store, terrified to step outside, the women hardly leave their homes (of their own volition) for fear of the streets, people have little hope for economic security or the fulfillment of basic needs, over 100,000 (estimated) of their innocent sons and daughters have died in a war that they didn't initiate or ask for. That number doesn't include the wounded, doesn't explain how overworked and understocked the hospitals are, how so many can't afford treatment anyway, how mothers and fathers have watched their children be blown to bits in front of their eyes. There was great violence during Saddam's rule but it was more focused and hidden, some say they'd prefer that type. So in the end, hopefully, we all pray, it will work out well. But that's not guaranteed. As for now, there are places in Iraq where the inhabitants have to walk around in foot-high sewage. And contrary to public thought, Muslims are highly meticulous about hygiene. Then again I'm a Muslim-American, the veiled type that so many believe has been brainwashed into subservience simply because I cover my hair. So it's dubious whether or not other Americans want to trust me. I also don't trust Bush /or/ Kerry, I think we're in trouble either way. But Bush has gotten us into more trouble than needed, though no one knows how it will pan out in the long-term. Hopefully well. So far the track record hasn't been good. Kerry is a clean slate, but he comes with no guarantees. The one thing pointed out by Lolla that I think is America's greatest weakness is ignorance over how terrorists think and infiltrate. The leaders wait for the impoverished and undereducated to fear Western cultural and political imposition. That part comes naturally, America does it simply by being a Superpower, by considering itself the 'world's policeman'. Then they find easy recruits. It's a fluid movement -- we may have killed 75% of the former leaders, but new ones have replaced the old in every instance. Approach terrorism in the wrong way and it's like cutting a worm -- try to kill one by slicing it in half and you have two. Terrorist leaders play on the suffering of other Muslims, play on the horrific life most Iraqi's and Palestinians are forced into, play on some unheroic historical events such as the 1953 CIA overthrow of Mossadegh Mohamed in Iran, America's initial support of Hussein, oppression in Chechnya, imbalance between rich and poor... by pointing to America's (and Britain's) faults while conveniently denying their own, and get the masses to feel so angry and outraged--not from religion but from the feeling of oppression--that the number of terrorists explode even while we're exploding hundreds of thousands of Muslims and several thousands of our own country men. Again, I pray that in the long run the war on Iraq will be a highly beneficial strategic advantage for all well intentioned people, but as things look at this point in time, we're tangling a very complicated web around us.

37 i have to agree that it's unclear exactly how the IRAQ situation will turn out, but regardless, I can't vote for Kerry; he just simply looks too much like 'Snidely Whiplash' when he is speaking, sorry.............

38 I have a solution to peace in the Middle East.... Nuke 'em all. That would solve everything.

39 i want e-mail adress of fozi amear

40 salam u alaikum xway gawra sarkau totan bkat wa pshti dujmnakantan bshkenet ba rasti tersu dlarawketan xstwata naw dly be dinan har sarfraz bin ema har ewaman haya

41 hallo,my question is how come you keep calling pepole hoo figth for there contry (terrorist)and the man hoo kill more pepole in afganistan and irak.MESTER BUSH. for you bush,the dog blair,and all thee contry that help killing inocent pepole in irak and afganistan and every were, your dag is coming too ,you think you going too last for ever.Well think twins

42 Number 1, The terrorists are murderers and they are not fighting for their country. They are not even Iraqis. Saddam Hussein was the biggest weapon of Mass destruction. Number 2, the terrorists are not fighting for Allah, Allah and God are the same person. The terrorists are fighting for Satan. They can say what they want but they are all going to hell. The Freedom fighters (US, UK & other supporters or free will and the Iraqi people) are the only ones trying to help. The terrorists are the ones killing innocent people who want freedom. Number 3, Yes, John Kerry winning would have told the terrorists they are winning. Number 4, Nuking the Middle East will not solve everything. I know a lot of people from the Middle East and they are not bad. There are a lot of nice people in the Middle East. Just look at those Iraqi men who told the terrorists to get out of their country. They said they would kill Zakawi if they seen him. Number 5, Zakawi is nothing but a coward. I bet he's pissed off because the US cut off his Playboy channel or maybe he doesn't have a penis. He obviously doesn't have balls. Not everyone in the middle east is brainless like Zakawi only he dumb ass followers. Number 6, To any terrorists who are reading this column. You are totally wrong. Look at all the charity workers who are being kidnapped and murdered. Like the leader of the aid organization and the 4 missionary people drug through the streets. All they were trying to do is help the people. Plus what are you affraid of if the Iraqi people want an election? Are you affraid because you will lose your jobs? Anyone who supports the terrorists are dirt and cowards. Only a coward can kill innocent people and hide behind a religion. Musslims are peacefull people. It is totally disgracefull that these cowards and pussies are defaming a good people just because they are hatefull losers. Allah is against killing. Satan is the only one the terrorists support.

43 i am a muslim brother from pakistan living in united states. i hate mr.bush and his policies and i want to defend my religion and my country. i have opened up a private forum for us brothers to discuss the cruelity of this zionist nation and how to deal with the injustice we receive. feel free to email me. we are located in phoenix, arizona.

44 The sad thing is that no one is realizing that this violence will never stop unless all sides involved agree to it, and grandchidren from all sides of this war will be ashamed to have had such leaders of countries and "freedom" "terrorist" groups considered as their relatives.

45 i wipe my ass with your KORAN

46 There is only one problem. That is the ignorance of people who are so stupid that they have not got the common sense to sit down and talk. They would sooner pick up a gun, make themselves into a human bomb and throw there lives away in a belief that they are doing good, instead of making their lives worthwhile. How much more stupidity are we going to see in this world before we realise we could all live in a happy environment and work together for our already dieing planet and civilisation. So much sorrow for the lives lost in the tsumini and so much love and aid given. Yet, some still willingly pick up a gun and shoot other humans so easily without the thought of family feelings and making themselves guilty of taking away life. Some sick people around I am ashamed to say.

47 Fuck all of you radical islamic motherfuckers. Killing anyone, nevermind innocent people, is against Allah's will. May the heavens rain fire down on all of you and may you forever burn in the fiery pits of hell. Martyrdom is bullshit, there are no virgins waiting for you in heaven. The recent spate of attacks on innocent Iraqi civilians shows the world that your "cause" isn't noble. How noble the cause that targets innocent lives? It is a ridiculous cause which will land all involved in hell. May GOD have mercy on your worthless souls. To hell with you all. Amen.

48 I SPIT ON JIHAD AND THE QURAN I SPIT ON IT TOO I SAY ALL AMERICANS RISE UP AND STEP UP ON THESE ARAB SHIT HEADS CAPTURE ANY ARAB U SEE THAT LOOKS LIKE A ALQAEDA MEMBER AND KIDNAP HIM AND SEND A VIDEO TO ALQAEDA SAYING U WILL BEHEAD HIM IF THOSE TERRORISTS DONT SURRENDER

49 thanx for this topics

50 if u ever go on orgish site it should be closed down

51 For IRAQ terrorists! I am a former Marine desert storm veteran and was in your country way before most of you JR rag heads knew what terrorisim was. Most of you thought you were tough inj desert storm incl last war. Why is it so hard for you to act like rats why cant you be like rest of the world get a job get involved in supporting the new Iraq for your future your children. remember beruit 1983? know now whos running Iran? that guy is your grandpa of terorisim. You degenerate syrian hezbalah monkey boys better read your own history = alexander the great. Americans are here to stay in your country of Iraq until you realize to get off your (dead beat lazy for nothing crying ass that you failed 1 to defened 2nd failed to embrace real freedom. Your all like little disruptive Saddam brats I know 12 year old kids that have more sense about growing a country. We marines will make you pay for july 3rd. just because you have your road bombs that will too soon end and we will be hunting you down cutting your heads off for a change. YOU BITE THE HAND THE FEEDS YOU AND YOU WILL PAY! MORE DEVIL DOGSS ARE COMING BITCH!

52 For IRAQ terrorists! I am a former Marine desert storm veteran and was in your country way before most of you JR rag heads knew what terrorisim was. Most of you thought you were tough inj desert storm incl last war. Why is it so hard for you to act like rats why cant you be like rest of the world get a job get involved in supporting the new Iraq for your future your children. remember beruit 1983? know now whos running Iran? that guy is your grandpa of terorisim. You degenerate syrian hezbalah monkey boys better read your own history = alexander the great. Americans are here to stay in your country of Iraq until you realize to get off your (dead beat lazy for nothing crying ass that you failed 1 to defened 2nd failed to embrace real freedom. Your all like little disruptive Saddam brats I know 12 year old kids that have more sense about growing a country. We marines will make you pay for july 3rd. just because you have your road bombs that will too soon end and we will be hunting you down cutting your heads off for a change. YOU BITE THE HAND THE FEEDS YOU AND YOU WILL PAY! MORE DEVIL DOGSS ARE COMING BITCH!

53 For IRAQ terrorists! I am a former Marine desert storm veteran and was in your country way before most of you JR rag heads knew what terrorisim was. Most of you thought you were tough inj desert storm incl last war. Why is it so hard for you to act like rats why cant you be like rest of the world get a job get involved in supporting the new Iraq for your future your children. remember beruit 1983? know now whos running Iran? that guy is your grandpa of terorisim. You degenerate syrian hezbalah monkey boys better read your own history = alexander the great. Americans are here to stay in your country of Iraq until you realize to get off your (dead beat lazy for nothing crying ass that you failed 1 to defened 2nd failed to embrace real freedom. Your all like little disruptive Saddam brats I know 12 year old kids that have more sense about growing a country. We marines will make you pay for july 3rd. just because you have your road bombs that will too soon end and we will be hunting you down cutting your heads off for a change. YOU BITE THE HAND THE FEEDS YOU AND YOU WILL PAY! MORE DEVIL DOGSS ARE COMING BITCH!

54 hmm..this is quite interesting

55 LOOK AT U U SAY THAT WE ARE FULL OF HATRED LOOK AT URSELFS WEN THE CALIPHATE COMES INSHALLAH YOU WILL SEE THE JUSTICE IT WILL BRING WEN U LOT WAS IN THE DARK AGES THE CALIPHATE WAS IN THE LIGHT... NO RAPEING OCCURED SINCE THE BEGGINING OF THE CALIPHATE TILL THE END IN 1924 NOT ONE RAPE IN SOCIETY NOWADAYS WOMEN GET RAPED EVRY 2 MINS U KNO THAT AND THERE WERE ONLY 250 THEFTS TILL THE BEGGINING AND END OF THE CALIPHATE AND KNOWADAYS OVER 100 THEFTS GO OWN EVRY HOUR look at the justice there WEN THE CHRISTIANS AND JEWS AND ALSO MUSLIMS WERE GETTIN SLAUGHTERED BY THE CHRISTIAN CRUSADERS IN PALESTINE THEY CALLLED OUR FOR THE MUSLIMS TO SAVE THEM AND BRING THEM JUSTICE AND THEY DID (I.E MUSLIMS) AND YOU KNO URSELF THE U.S TROOPS ARE GETTING BATTERED IN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN THEY GOT BATTERED IN SOMALIA AND VIETNAM UR SO WEAK! USE UR INTERLECT NOT UR EMOTIONS!

56 LOOK AT U U SAY THAT WE ARE FULL OF HATRED LOOK AT URSELFS WEN THE CALIPHATE COMES INSHALLAH YOU WILL SEE THE JUSTICE IT WILL BRING WEN U LOT WAS IN THE DARK AGES THE CALIPHATE WAS IN THE LIGHT... NO RAPEING OCCURED SINCE THE BEGGINING OF THE CALIPHATE TILL THE END IN 1924 NOT ONE RAPE IN SOCIETY NOWADAYS WOMEN GET RAPED EVRY 2 MINS U KNO THAT AND THERE WERE ONLY 250 THEFTS TILL THE BEGGINING AND END OF THE CALIPHATE AND KNOWADAYS OVER 100 THEFTS GO OWN EVRY HOUR look at the justice there WEN THE CHRISTIANS AND JEWS AND ALSO MUSLIMS WERE GETTIN SLAUGHTERED BY THE CHRISTIAN CRUSADERS IN PALESTINE THEY CALLLED OUR FOR THE MUSLIMS TO SAVE THEM AND BRING THEM JUSTICE AND THEY DID (I.E MUSLIMS) AND YOU KNO URSELF THE U.S TROOPS ARE GETTING BATTERED IN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN THEY GOT BATTERED IN SOMALIA AND VIETNAM UR SO WEAK! USE UR INTERLECT NOT UR EMOTIONS!

57 LOOK AT U U SAY THAT WE ARE FULL OF HATRED LOOK AT URSELFS WEN THE CALIPHATE COMES INSHALLAH YOU WILL SEE THE JUSTICE IT WILL BRING WEN U LOT WAS IN THE DARK AGES THE CALIPHATE WAS IN THE LIGHT... NO RAPEING OCCURED SINCE THE BEGGINING OF THE CALIPHATE TILL THE END IN 1924 NOT ONE RAPE IN SOCIETY NOWADAYS WOMEN GET RAPED EVRY 2 MINS U KNO THAT AND THERE WERE ONLY 250 THEFTS TILL THE BEGGINING AND END OF THE CALIPHATE AND KNOWADAYS OVER 100 THEFTS GO OWN EVRY HOUR look at the justice there WEN THE CHRISTIANS AND JEWS AND ALSO MUSLIMS WERE GETTIN SLAUGHTERED BY THE CHRISTIAN CRUSADERS IN PALESTINE THEY CALLLED OUR FOR THE MUSLIMS TO SAVE THEM AND BRING THEM JUSTICE AND THEY DID (I.E MUSLIMS) AND YOU KNO URSELF THE U.S TROOPS ARE GETTING BATTERED IN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN THEY GOT BATTERED IN SOMALIA AND VIETNAM UR SO WEAK! USE UR INTERLECT NOT UR EMOTIONS! one more thing "how can you defeat someone who looks into the gun barrel of his enemy and see the gates of paradise open"

58 Uh, pull the trigger.

59 Mujahid sniff me show.

1 This is really getting out of countrol. Especially when they behead her (the first female) because right now all she is> Is a victim to be. Like anyone else who becomes a hostage with a video now a days

2 Is there any doubt that the people that would do something like this need to die a horrible, prolonged, painful death? I am thinking maybe peeling them like an onion while being anally violated would be an appropriate way to handle this. Anyone willing to run planes into buildings and kidnap & behead people are willing to die to kill us and all of the people that believe in freedom and liberty. Freedom is on the march, and I will be very glad to see these assholes trampled underneath those of us marching.

3 An own goal for the terrorists whatever they do to her. Such an own goal the conspiracy theorists will say it's a set up, whatever they do with her. Taking an Iraqi who just so happens to be born in Ireland will mean fuck all to Blair. The IRA were more worrisome. To be honest the more i read, the more i see, the more i notice how pathetic a fight these people put up. Ain't the muslims supposed to spread the word of Allah? Well the word is spreading and people ain't liking what they hear.

4 Somewhere I read - maybe here? where there was a bounty on any head that was working for the coalition and for the govt of Iraq and others including humanitarian workers (NEIN) that they are open to kidnappings and beheadings; that everyone is at risk. Someone dropped fliers all over the place and gave so much money to the type of people to be kidnapped. I believe the highest price was $100,000. A way for Zarqawi to get the people involved in kidnapping top foreign aid and business as well as coalition troops. very bad ~Cindy sorry have not been around - been very ill, Rusty.

5 I hope this is the final straw for the Iraqi people who know this woman to be a friend. I pray she is delivered alive and well. If not, I hope that every Iraqi alive turns on these terrorists and marches them straight into some instant street justice.

6 MR BLAIR SHOULD SHUT UP. The psychology of ransom negotiation is simple but brutal. You are far more likely to retrieve intact an object of little worth than golden treasure. And for her kidnappers that is exactly what Mrs Hassan is-an object, a piece of merchandise to be paraded via satellite TV to bid up the price while they wait around for the anguished offers to roll in. Like Kenneth Bigley, Mrs Hassan has fallen beyond our Western power. Her fate will be determined by her kidnappers whose agenda, monetary gain or political blackmail, remains unclear. From the moment of his capture Mr Bigley was a dead man walking. Kidnappers who behead their captives on camera and upload their bloody handi-work on to the internet are not going to be swayed by earnest statements in the House of Commons. From start to finish, Mr Bigley's protracted murder by his kidnapper. al-Zarqawi, was a sadistic torment. It served al-Zarqawi's twisted aim of spreading terror, and exaggerated his limited power. We should not repeat the mistake. But this prime ministerial gagging order should not prevent secret efforts to free Mrs Hassan. The last best hope of saving her is silence and discreet diplomacy.

7 WhatÂ’s this? TheyÂ’re doing women now? WhatÂ’s next, a child? How far will these monsters go? I have said it in past postings, they've already gone too far and the US has been too lenient. It is time for harsh action. If indeed these bastards are hiding in Fallujah as they are thought to be, nuke the effing place and send everyone were they want to go anyway (allah) sooner than later. Send the message that Iran is next and to all other American hating camel jockeys down there, that we mean business and we will not jeoperdize our freedom and security to these rats. Folks do not fool yourselves, if these guys had a nuke, or the power that the US possesses, theyÂ’d use it on with the same consideration given to ants and everybody in the region would be in the streets dancing. This is what scares the shite out of me. I pray for Mrs Hassan as I did for Mr. Bigley, Hensley, Armstrong etc etc and for the future victims because this ain't going to stop here.

8 EXPAT, you're right. These people are savages...what do the anti-war spewers think now? Do they still think that these bastards are doing to get revenge when it's their own fucking people they're killing? People who are there to HELP them and aren't even remotely involved in this invasion???? Whatever the initial reasons were, we need to completely obliterate the place (after we get the US and UK troops out first). To each his own. Let each country take care of their own asses. I'm tired of our country coming to everyone's aid. What good is it doing? It's getting worse....get rid of them now.

9 Rusty, is there a hostage video out of Margaret yet?

10 Never mind, I found it, but when I mentioned its source, the blog would not accept my post! Hint: it's on that grisly site where most of the beheading videos and other gorish scenes are.

11 I hate to say it but, if they kill her, it will just fall in behind those poor kids that were killed by the Chechnyan murderers. Honestly, it wouldn't shock me in the least.

12 Maybe the lesson is we shouldn't CARE. They don't. The Iraqi people could stop this if they cared. Still waiting for the world to get pissed off. Or is the jealous world more interested in defaming America than helping this woman?

13 WILL: It's not Blair's fault. If he doesn't say or do anything the fault finders will still blame him. If not him, then Bush, or Cheney or the guy down the street. Only the Iraqi people can save this women. They need to get out in the streets and holler for an end to this beheading bullshit. Only then will the cowards stop. They can get into the streets to protest everything the government or coalition does. Why can't they get into the streets to protest these horrible, cowardly beheadings? Or do they give a shit? I'm beginning to believe the latter.

14 Aljazeera is aiding the terrorists by accepting these horrible videos and appeasing them by showing them. Aljazeera should be hunted down and gotten rid of as well. As long as these videos are shown around the country and on the internet, the terrorists will have succeeded. I wonder why the iraqi's aren't standing up for their own asses and protesting these beheadings, esp. since they are sawing off the heads of their own people? Are they that illiterate that they cannot pick up a gun or bomb themselves and go after the insurgents? I don't think they give a shit either. All the more reason for us to pull out of there and either flatten them or just leave them to work out their own mess.

15 Once a peacenik or two is killed by these animals, the peaceniks won't be peaceful any longer. Food for thought, but this also shows what a bunch of homos allah worshipers are.

16 Laura, it doesn't appease them it pisses me off to the point of fury to see those videos.

17 That's what I mean! The terrorists WANT to cause a stir in the western civilizations...if we don't react publicly at how horrible these crimes are(and they are, I'm not arguing about that) then maybe they will see that it doesn't affect us(it does, but we don't need to publicly have an outcry about it). When they see that their means of terror doesn't upset us, and we keep this shit off the internet and the media, then they'll see that what they're doing is not going to sway us into giving into them. Hope that made sense.

18 All the bleeding heart libs and anti-war nuts can go bitch to their governments if they think the invasion was illegal. Poor Bush, he was damned if he did and damned if he didn't. Iraq posed a definite threat, hence, Saddam...okay, we got him. Does this mean that he didn't instruct his followers as to where the WMD's are and tell his cohorts to carry on in his absence? I have a horrible feeling about all this...do the peaceniks think for one minute that if we didn't invade Iraq, that it would've been just a matter of time till they attacked us like on 9/11? We may have not even been around to debate this on this blog had we sit back and done nothing. Even though we are there, I still think those WMD's are around somewhere, and unless Bush flattens these countries, they will not hesitate to use them.

19 The problem with this is that we are seeing a woman who was committed to the aid of Iran and its people and the inference is that the Iranians have "bitten the hand that feeds". It's quite possible that it isn't even Iranians that are holding her. This is ISLAM. It's not a country, it's a religion. It knows no geographical boundaries... it just so happens that the pickings are easy in Iran at the moment and the eyes of the world are upon it. I agree with the poster above who says that "the world isn't liking what they hear about Islam at the moment". These arseholes should be thankful that us in the West are far more civilised and reasonable or we could chuck Al Jazeera enough video footage of Muslims being killed and mutilated in as many was imaginable by man to keep their station occupied for the next 100 years. They can keep on kidnapping and beheading but if they think that the terror they are instilling outweighs the resolve we feel to see this through, they should think again. I am from the UK but I urge all of you to back Bush on this one. This war needs to continue, these people out there "doing good" should come home until it's less dangerous. I sympathise with Mrs Hassan (as I sympathised with Bigley, Armstrong, Hensley etc) but let's have a little less altruism... honestly... it gets you nowhere. This war is not altuistic, it isn't about "giving the Iraqii people a better life". It's about making damn sure they don't assist any terrorists to make our life miserable again. And it's a staging point for the inevitable invasion on Iran for ditto reasons. The American Way is Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. The Islam way seems to be death, shackles and the pursuit of misery. Witness any Islamic nation for proof of this.

20 SHIT I HOPE I'M WRONG...I JUST HEARD A NEWSFLASH ON FOX NEWS SAYING THAT MARGARET'S BEEN KILLED. Has anyone heard anything?? Rusty??? Damn, I hope it's not true, but you know, it's inevitable, it WILL happen. Bastards.

21 No, have not picked up on that in the U.K as of yet Laura.

22 I don't think so, I think they were talking about the latest video that has been released of the Iraqi that was working with the Americans? One can only hope! What are these bastards trying to accomplish with these murders? We haven't bowed down to them, do they think if they kill enough people, we would eventually give in? Is that what they're hoping? I don't understand all this.

23 I notice that thru fear the hostages always agree with the terrorists. I guess the hostages hope that by agreeing with the animals they may spare them. They then kill them anyway. Hard for me to get my point across. But if they were anything but cruel killers who enjoy killing wouldn't they spare the hostages after they got what they wanted? Namely, a speech agreeing with the ISLAMIC terrorists. I want it to stop but I want revenge to. Why in the hell can't we just one time act as they do. American service man gets 8 years for humiliating a fucking animal. I'm beginning to wonder about our military higher ups. Sacrifice a American service man so they can look good to the lousy wogs.

24 Do you think that soldier was a scapegoat, esp. since the election is drawing nearer? Does the govt. think that by handing down such a strict sentence that these animals will stop the slaughter? C'mon America, time to get real! He gets 8 fucking years for abusing the enemy???? OMG, what is WRONG with this country? And OJ still walks free! God help us.

25 I say just nuke the whole fucking middle east and call it the united states of glowing oil! Nuke Mecca and Medina this ramalamadingdong or whatever those moon barkers call it. Quit with this stupid foreplay with these islamic retards and start nuking the place.

26 Sadly, Andre's way may be the only way to end this. What else is there left to do?

27 Just realised in my post I kept saying "Iran"... you people know that I meant "Iraq"... Freudian Slip I spose...

28 Red Devil: Iran, Iraq = same difference!

29 Wake up America! Can't you see that the price for abusing Iraqi detainees has been paid already by, NIck Berg,he was executed in retalliation for what went on at Abu Graib. Tawhid Al Jihad said themselves such acts must be paid for in Souls. The Trailer Trash Woman that was seen in all those photos abusing prisonners,''with her thumbs up gesture towards an iraqi detainee cowering cross legged trying to cover his genitals by crossing his knees'', has done more to whip up the so called enemy than a hundred Binladins!

30 No, that stupid woman didn't whip up anything that wasn't already there. What went on in Abu Graib was inexcusable. What is going on in so called retaliation is WAR. What this war needs is an atheist leader - someone with no religious preference. The unfortunate thing, as far as the Western world is concerned is that the USA is in control but has yet to shake from the shackles of Christianity. Drop the Christianity and the war can start to be won. Declare a war on religion... that is what this has become. These sick bastards are not at war with the USA etc... they are propogating Islamic Faith. By being in any way, shape or form religious, you are encouraging these people. When the war simply boils down to objectivity (in this context, the day to day living of man as a species) you will begin to see that religion plays no part in the winning of this war. These people are at least 4 centuries behind the rest of the civilised world. They are that way because they believe in their god. If their god existed, he would have stepped in personally by now. It's all a load of bullshit, when will people realise this? Fuck Allah, Fuck God. And when I die I will be worm food... I won't go to hell.

31 Red Devil: I agree with much of what you say. Two points though. (1) The other religions are a force to help to control the backward gutter religion of Islam. (2) Didn't the commies try to no religion approach? Guns are tools, religion is a tool. They can be used for your cause of against it. Have a good one.

32 What's the big fucking deal about Aba Graib prison. Shit, I've seen films of prisoners right here in America stripped naked and forced to crawl across the floor. Why is everyone making such a big deal about these Islamic faggots. Why isn't anyone attacking the vietnamese for doing worse than that to allied soldiers. Anyone out there ever in the Marine Corp (hurrah) in the sixties??? Remember 1st day in boot camp? Everyone stripped naked and had to stand asshole to bellybutton. What went on in Abu Graib was nothing to what goes on in the majority of countries in the world. The truth is we have too many sissys worried about the care of killers. They're our enemies to the death. Again, who gives a shit about them. Give a shit about the families of the 51 slaughtered Iraqi soldiers. When they're released all they do is go back to the same thing. Read about the poor, picked on Gitmo prisoners. What are they doing after being released. The same fucking thing. Frickin cry babies.

33 WATCHONAMERICA: You're a lot of help. Stupid terrorist loving bastard.

34 How can the world be so fucked up.? The most powerful country on earth has a president that can't even speak English with any fluidity, yet it is his mother tongue. Fuck me when he opens his mouth I cringe as I am on tender hooks waiting for the next howling mistake he makes. One of the worst is when he appears to be trying his utmost to put his brain in to gear, to say something, which he obviously rehearsed only moments previously, but which now on the rostrum fails him utterly and mometarily he has the facial expression of '' aw where the fuck am I, what the fucks all this about any ways, where is that guy Blair? Where's an ally when you need one, yup,there you go, shit how long can I keep up this tight assed phoney American smile before they realise that I'm actualy here to say something meaningful and have just forgotten my lines. The knock out punch is when this sprog of bush mark 1 tries to ad a little humour and in the process looks as dumb as shit! Knows it too! But even tries to hide behind that dumb ass smile, hoping we havent noticed what a cunt this fucker is. The best thing America sould do for us is bump off the Queen, but this time a little more subtle than the way you bumped off of Dianna. Must admit George, your state visit for the most part realy pissed me off, for goodness sakes you sent our King packing in th 18th century because of the ridicule your presidents used to suffer in London at the hands of the aristoctacy. Do you not know that at dinner party's your then president attended in London was oft humiliated and made to feel grosly inferior. Not to mention the tax on Tea which is the reason why coffee not Tea is the national beverage of America. To see you looking like a nervous child in the banquet hall of Buckingham Palace, sat next too the Queen,not knowing quite what to do with yourself, realy was awe inspiring,never before in the anals of time has a president of any state let alone states ever looked such a buffoon. You did redeem yourself somewhat though when just as all the guests were seated, the opening notes of the Star Spangled Banner rang out and you stood up with your wine glass in the air, on your own, as you thought it was a toast to the Queen, then sat down immediately, red faced, realising you had just made yourself look a right cunt! Thank ya George God bless America

35 Greyrooster, looks like you are a bit challenged in the old grey cells departement. I was shocked and appalled at the beheading of Nick Berg, how dare you deduce from my earlier posting that I am a lover of terrorists. You obviously havent read it properly, and need to read it again, any reasonable minded person can see that this is one persons viewpoint very moderately expressed. English is obviously not your first language or your forte, though Red Neck probably is. You know anybody can swear and rant and rave. I know not one person with any degree of intelligence that chooses to do so. By swearing you simply show lack of imagination in expressing yourself adequately. It is this which frustrates you and amuses me immenseley. You then resort to swearing instead of pickilng up a book and trying to better yourself. I am truly sorry to be the bringer of bad news but this shows very low breeding. Thank goodness you are on that side of the pond and not this. To live within a thousand miles of you would be unbearable. Nobodies opinion matters but your own. If anyone disagrees with you you take it as a personal attack. You are low breeding personified . I hate to be the bringer of bad news but you realy are quite sick and should seek professional help at the earliest of opportunities. You are obviously homophobic too judging by your reference to homosexuals as faggots. This in itself shows possible latent homosexual tendencies, long supressed, by an individual who spent his/her formative years in an environement where males express their masculinity by hating everything homosexual. One could be forgiven for thinking that you probably live in on a trailer park in Utah, watch t.v.24/7, live on welfare and live in an abusive relationship. Thankyou for being the source of much amusement to me, bless you for that. Yours Faithfully, watchonamerica,London,England. 15.50 p.m British Time - Tuesday

36 Breaking News : Just recieved email from swenpark that an Aid worker has been beheaded in Iraq. 11 am standard time statement released stating that ''God is great'',that ''there is no god but Allah'', no one group has claimed responsibility. Waiting to get full translation, group has stated that a video will be released soon and posted on the interenet. These goons claim that all infidel dog americans and british buldog poodles can learn that until they leave holy Moslem lands death shall become them. It advices all Moslems to stay away from these dog infidels lest they become as them and any Moslem that chooses to forget his religion and mixes among them shall be spited at the neck{euphemism for beheaded). All Christians, Jews , Hindus and Buddhists are the inmates of hell! More news soon as I get it

37 The kidnapping of another British citizen brought forward the observation from the Prime Minister that this shows "the type of people we are up against". Indeed it does, but it also provokes the more pertinent observation that Mrs Margaret Hassan had been working in complete safety in Iraq for two decades prior to the coalition invasion.

38 WATCHONAMERICA: The statement faggot bothering you so much tells me much. Faggot. Yes, Thank goodness I am on this side of the pond. It seems that many on the other side have already began the process of giving in the the ISLAMIC fanatics. WatchonAmerica, Just the name tells me what you're about. Americans have to much class to title themselves WATCHONENGLAND. Mind your own business and keep your mouth off of America and Americans wil not attack you. I do not live in Utah, but I do love the people there. As far as the welfare comment. I can and have bought many like you. Shitheads who mind others business come cheap. Glad you live in London, maybe the 300,000 cameras on the streets there can keep an eye on you. The low breeding comment. Better check with your mother on that one. She probably told you about the trailer parks from personel experience. I need a new handle. How about WATCHONFAGGOTSINENGLAND. Now go hold your rag headed boyfriends hand.

39 Yes, this is reminicent of Bigley, it looks like the gay virgin camel lovers will be beheaded a woman soon. I give a day or two and we'll be howling for the fosilized piece of holyshit called the cabba to be nuked.

40 Oh land of the free, quite the contrary laim brain, but thank you for the laugh, your hate filled biggotry makes you look such a wanker. You make so many assumptions based on ignorance and hate,one has to feel sorry for you. It is my business what goes on in the world as much as it is yours or anybody elses. The difference between us is that I would be the first one to defend your right to free speach,so long as it does not insite hatred of others based on their race, religion or sexual orientation. Just to educate you a bit, every homosexual male or female was the product of a heterosexual egg and heterosuxual sperm. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it! Your paranoia about homosexuals makes me think they occupie your every waking or should that be wanking thought, or perhaps thought of a wanker, one has to be conscious that we are divided by a common language. I had intended to post a message completely without reference to you or this subject as unlike you it is not my every waking thought. However when I saw your posting I felt compelled to respond. You are so proud to be as you call it American, the only true Americans to be correct are the very indigenous peoples your forefathers and mine,for the most part,wiped of the face of the map,in a rather conveniently for the likes of you - largely unrecognised wholesale genocide. The 'lot' of those that survived was to be placed on ever reducing reservations in Canada and the US , a humilliation for such a wonderful civillzation that were and are the true custodians of North America. They took from the land only that which they needed. I have a lot of respect for all indigineous peoples throughout the world. Unlike the greedy self serving Caucasians the North Amercan Indian lived in harmony with the earth, seeing all life as intertwined, interconnected. Yes they had their tribal wars and rightly tried to defend their homeland of America for many years. Thank you once again for being the source of much amusement to me, you realy are quite a cad, God bless America

41 Just for the record, there are some of us in Britain who side squarely with what the Bush/Blair administrations are doing in Iraq. For those of us whom have studied a bit of history (and obviously watchonamerica has not) we are witnessing the rise of a disturbing ideology, much like fascism or nazism. When faced with such an abominable thing as islamic extremism, a somber verse from the famed American poet, Walt Whitman highlights a feeling felt by many: "Re-examine all you have been told...Dismiss what insults you Soul" Therefore, listen not to the chorus of critics, and do not sit idly by while heathens such as Zarqawi plant seeds of doubt and discord into the feeble minds of ones such as watchonamerica. Stand up and support America and Britain, as eventually, due to our vigilance and sacrifice, we will someday have a stable, safe and democratic middle east. History will vindicate the drastic actions taken in Iraq....mark my words.

42 One last thing for that insufferable twit, watchonamerica; the following comment clearly evidences to me that you've not even had the most rudimentary of education in history of the americas: "Unlike the greedy self serving Caucasians the North Amercan Indian lived in harmony with the earth, seeing all life as intertwined, interconnected." American Indians lived in Harmony eh? Some of the bloodiest battles ever fought happened long before any conquistadors of Francisco Vazquez de Coronado ever set foot in the americas. Indian life was tribal, with human sacrifices to various gods common. Sound familiar? Oh, and don't forget the scalping. Compassion and tolerance are both advents of a civilised society. The American Indians had lived century upon century with little progress and near constant tribal warfare. Again, history has vindicated the act of colonizing the Americas. Iraq will be no exception.

43 Jeff, my pet hate is wannabee American Brits like you that use improper English with an American slant on it. If you want to be American go and live in America, get the fuck out of here! To quote you ''the following comment clearly evidences''. What kind of English is that? Evidences does not exist in the English dictionary. Unless the one you hold is a Yankee one. And it was Vasco de Gamma you twit not Vasques or coronado you bollocks! You know shit about any history least of all the Americas.Fuck the Monarchy, Fuck Bush and Blair and Fuck you, you un read piece of shit. Oh and another thing, whatever dictionary you have,get it out and use it for fucks sake can't you, cause your posting is full of errors. You have either spent time stateside or watched too much Starsky And Hutch. Grow up,that shit was made in Toronto not N.Y.C,you pathetic sad wanabee American. The only way there'l be peace in the middle east is if the Americans stop funding Israel and the Israelies Give back Palestinians their land Which they stole in 1948 saying okay guys this is our land it says so in the Torah,look right there,5000 years ago this was our land and we are re claiming it. Before the hollocaust hollocaust there was no problem with the jews and Arabs they lived along side each other for centuries, the Jews were not oppressed. They have brought upon palestinians the same suffering the Jews suffered under the Third Reich. Thats what caused all this fundamentallist backlash,Zionism and corporate America. Yes these beheadings are sick and inhuman but the palestinian cause is now and always has been a Moslem cause. Islam is not a country, it is a global force, this is Jihad, a global jihad,for every terrorist killed another will take his or her place, and another and another and it goes on and on until America realises it and Israel are the root cause of all the problems in the world regarding Islamic Fundamentalists. They alone fuel the fire of hate that encourages these sick bastards to on to do their dastardly deeds.Wake up and smell the coffee Jeff, before its too late!

44 I am so sick of these d*mn rag heads. I have had it! I say nuke those b*stards and be done with it. I used to care, now I am angry. Let them keep it up and ALL of America and the world will agree with my comment VERY soon. There will be a waist land in the Mid-East to remind them all of the STUPIDITY that was once displayed in Iraq!

45 I am so sick of these d*mn rag heads. I have had it! I say nuke those b*stards and be done with it. I used to care, now I am angry. Let them keep it up and ALL of America and the world will agree with my comment VERY soon. There will be a waist land in the Mid-East to remind them all of the STUPIDITY that was once displayed in Iraq!

46 Posted by: watchonamerica at October 28, 2004 03:43 PM Oh land of the free, quite the contrary laim brain, but thank you for the laugh, your hate filled biggotry makes you look such a wanker. ------------ Lets see, laim brain? don't you mean "LAME BRAIN" Also, biggotry is correctly spelled "BIGOTRY" Your lack of historical knowledge is only matched by your inability to spell simple words.

47 Not for nothing Watchon, but for someone exulting the use of a dictionary your posts are filled with errors. For example, your October 29th 7:09PM post consisted of the following inaccuracies: American (I between the r and c) Americas (capitalization) Civilized (not s, z) Evidences (is a real word in the dictionary) Vasquez (with a z) Coronado (capitalization) ThereÂ’ll (two ls) Israelis (no ies) Holocaust (one l) Jews (capitalization) Palestinians (capitalization) ThatÂ’s (need an apostrophe here) Fundamentalist (one L) Realizes (with a z not an s)

48 we must eliminate the entire race

49 WATCHONAMERICA... I proudly serve my country! I take to offense the fact that you are so willing to bring up the fact of how North America came to be, yet if I remember history correctly was not the british a colonial ruler, a country that has also suppressed many throughout the world...please do not bring up the atrocities at which we have commited when you are just as guilty...just ask the scottish people and irish you still suppress today.....as far as living on this side of the pond I AM PROUD OF IT for there is no other country I would rather be associated with in this modern world. And I would die defending her beliefs...but the question should be....would you die for yours?

50 www.fromthewilderness.com Im afraid its all a lot bigger than 'We're bringing freedom to the world!' and 'They're all terrorist supporting ragheads that hate our freedom!' When will you pathetic children realise that life is not black and white. Your country are not the White Knights and the Middle East is not the evil dragon. Perhaps if, not just your people, perhaps if their people as well, if every single person on this planet, realised long ago that life is a chessboard, that you, we, are the pawns, and people with so much power, influence and money it is disgusting, are the Kings, Queens and Bishops, that you are simply playing the part what your controllers want to to, which at the moment is to shout and cheer patriotically at every dicision they make that brings us all closer to the end, perhaps if we all realised that long ago we would not now be standing at the fucking brink, staring over the abyss into the face of anihilation. Or perhaps not. Who knows. All i say is take a long fucking look at what is to come soon, within the next few years, and maybe decide not to cheer when your tanks roll into to Iran, or Syria, or North Korea. And be prepared for what will happen next, when China comes. Enjoy the future you, we, have all allowed to come true, i know im not going to much. Perhaps you could start by wondering when the idea of locking people up without trial, torturing them, and holding them for years in a concentration camp, will be changed to include not only terrorists, but say someone who happens to enjoy smoking a joint after work, alcoholics, gays, mexicans and blacks as well as all other races that are not white, and other 'undesirables' as well. It astonishes me how this exact storyline has played itself out twice in the last century, and again we are falling for it. Do you think the German people knew of the horror to come when their armies invaded Poland? I think Einstein summed it up nicely. 'I know not with what weapons World War Three shall be fought, but World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones.' Enjoy it people, because we are all responsible for this.

1 We all know your a Republican. But does every blog this week have to be a Kerry thrashing. Stay with the Puppet movie comments they make more sense

2 Am I the only one. But it seems to me like it's not called the War on terror. It's called the War On Iraq. and this war is never going to be won as long as we are over there. Those people look at it as though we are now invading their country since Saddam is gone. And no matter how many mystery men we name (osama , Zarqawi) they are always gonna hate us. There's no way we can win... oh yeah unless like your boy said we (Stay on course and they will see the light eventually)

3 Nice one, Rusty. You've even brought in some swamp rats! IraQ: The war in Iraq is part of the War on Terror. The problems we are having in Iraq have less to do with Arab resentment towards America than Iran's fear of American intervention in their nuclear designs and the U.N. hierarchy's fear of being exposed as the larcenous frauds they are.

4 Back off it's Rusty's blog he can say anything he wants to...we are uninvited guests. Iraq, I agree it is the war on terrorism, and as this blog stated, we now know that terrorists are not just limited to "Osama's group"...that they are in a lot of countries, not just Afghanistan, etc. Had Bush said we were going to Iraq to get the terrorists hiding out there, I think there wouldn't be all this Bush bashing. He used the wrong reasoning, to find WMD, or oil, or to free the people whatever. Whether they be in Osama's group or Zarqawi's these towelhead terroristic bastards are all the same and must be snuffed out. BTW, everyone has strayed so far away from the war in Arghanistan, no one says whether or not we illegally invaded them...it was just when we went into Iraq that all this "illegal invasion" business started.

5 Senator Kerry referred to ricin as a biological weapon today. I suppose it sounds like "rice" and thats a plant and therefore biological. It is a pedantic complaint but one that would be a blasted across the left-hand side of the blogosphere if President Bush had made the same mistake. "He's stupid." "He's Hitler." the people in the pink tanks and clown heads would say.

6 Sorry, I got distracted by the dolts who wrote the first two comments up there. My point is that Senator Kerry is incompetent to run a war on bin Laden or a war on terror.

7 Amen flea. And Laura, I would just add that you are "invited guests". Also, I would also add that part of me agrees with IraQ. I'm not sure that there is anything we can do to get those people to like us. On the other hand, I don't care if they like us. What I care about is if they share our goal of killing the Islamofascists.

8 Hi Rusty, sorry to spam your comments here. Apparently ricin is prohibited by both the Biological and Toxin Weapons Convention (BTWC) and Schedule 1 of the Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC) so is considered both a chemical and biological weapon. So I will just shut my big mouth.

9 Damn Flea, Spam away.

10 Whether Zarqawi's dead is not the point...look at the latest kidnapping! There will still be his cohorts to carry out the dastardly deeds of kidnapping and beheading innocent victims. Unfortunately, I have a nagging feeling he's still very much alive.

11 I can't wait to get deployed!!! I would love to be the one that puts a bullet right between Zarquawi's eyes while he squirms and begs for mercy with his neck underneath my boot. The people that think that Kerry has the stomach for this are living on a special kind of drug. I would invite Mr. Zarquawi to come on out and face me and my cohorts. Make sure to bring some friends and a falafal, you are gonna be awhile. It is gonna be great to work our way around the world kicking the ass of the people that think WE are the Great Satan. God Bless America and everywhere that freedom loving people live.

12 Right on, David! I will pray for you! Go to Ken Bigley's beheading blog, where anti-American Brits seem to regale in bashing Bush and America for its so called "illegal invasion". As far as I'm concerned 9/11 was an "illegal invasion", Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, they're all the same to me. Read their comments, it's really sickening to see such non-support of our troops. Take care.

13 David, you rule. God speed.

14 Got news for you guys. They hated (jealous of) us long before we invaded. Iraqi's that like us? About 50% of those we allowed to move here.

15 I'm still trying to find out who gets to say if a war is illegal or legal. I do know that the guy who wins is always right.

1 Imagine that!!! The people selling their souls to the Arabs in Iraq would be piss poor soldiers, ignoring people coming and going from an ammo dump that is being used to supply terrorists to kill US Soldiers. I think the best way to handle this is to encourage the Germans to re-invade France and then let them fend for themselves. Right be fore we do that though, we should move all of the graves of those brave US Soldiers that saved them the last time they got bent over and taken for a ride. Good riddance to the French, the UN, Kofi Annan and the liberals.

2 It was so much easier to figure this stuff out when we were just arming them ourselves. Damn foreigners meddling in our affairs.

1 Rusty, After you've seen Team America this will be even funnier to you. Mean Un threat? Priceless!

2 T minus two hours 'til Team America!

3 Syria is not going to leave peacefully as long as there are Christians that haven't been killed, run out or converted to their stupid religion. If we had any balls back then we never would have let the Islamic shitheads ruin the most advanced county in the area. Remember Lebanon? The financial capital of the middle east. Thanks to Islam their back riding camels. Just the word UNITED NATIONS is a joke.

4 I see that your suffering from ignorance, dont worry tis very common. Firts of all, Lebanon was distabilised due to the large influx of Palestianian refugees that were FORCED out of Palestine by the Israelis. I have nbever come across a race that is more Hostile towards muslims then christian Lebanese and maybe they should blame themselves, or the Zionists they have a hand in everything.

1 ....it doesn't matter WHAT good or evil mrs. Hassan has done in the past: she has euro connections, anglo blood, and she is a socially active WOMAN- all no-no's to "radical Islam". and the extremists are about ethnic cleansing first, politics second.

2 Maybe, but many of the terro-organizations are politically savvy. Scores of hostages have been released because the terros calculated that killing them would not further the cause.

3 See what I mean about these spineless bastards? They don't care that people are over there, trying to help their people, trying to rebuild their cities! That's why I say for us to get the hell out of there, including the UK and whoever else is there fighting with us if they haven't pulled out already. Then, when everyone's home, bomb the shit out of the whole place. No warning, no nothing, just like Japan. Japan don't bother us no more...hmmmm, wonder why? These animals know we're not gonna do that though, so they keep on kidnapping and beheading.......when will it stop?

4 A British soldier serving in Iraq is there to foster the rebuiding of the country. He risks death, an honourable death. A contractor has the same intention, and runs the same risk. A humanitarian worker's beneficent intensions are clear to anyone of good will. If a humanitarian worker is abducted by murderous men, the news evokes our sorrow and sympathy. It also calls for steadfastness. To co-operate in the evil of the kidnappers by seeking to reward them would be to betray whatever good that people such as Margaret Hassan have achieved.

5 What a bunch of spineless pricks!!! There's always a ton of you, holding guns, knives, etc. Put your weapons down and try and behead someone with your bare hands. Oh, I forgot, you fuckin sand, diaper wearing on your head cowards. Your cause is DEAD!!! I agree, bring everyone home, drop an A Bomb on their sorry asses!!

1 "Forget what the politicians are saying--this is not just a war against terrorism it is a war against an ideology". Hmmm... DOH! Why are terrorists terrorists? They aren't just sadists. They have a severely fucked up view of the world and what it requires to live in peace. Namely, we all become devout Muslims and all will be cool. Well, f**k you Mr Muslim Man, I ain't taking my shoes off to enter your Holy Home of Mosquedom. But I'll make sure to wipe my feet on the way out.

2 Rusty: Anyway you can keep this blog so we can continue to track the Boys from Gitmo over a long period of time. I believe it will be a killer for our team.

1 There are Macedonians in the world?

2 what a silly comment. macedonians are not many, not a reason to forget them

3 baf--he was just joking, and yes it was silly--but a joke. Hurray Macedonia!!!!!1

4 Hasn't anyone discovered by now that BAF hasn't a clue about humor or anything else.

5 Hasn't anyone learned that BAF hasn't a clue about anything.

6 FYROM is not Macedonia but the former Yugoslav Rep of Macedonia.The ancient Macedonians were a Greek tribe and its ancient Capitals Pella and Agae are in the Greek provence of the Real Macedonia,

7 O shut up! You greeks are realy boring with proving that Macedonia is greek, there were, there are, and there will be macedonians ever after!

8 fuck the greak they are stupid busterds

9 Macedonia is a country with a history.We are so sorry

10 If Macedonia was Greece and Aleksandar the Great was Greek, then why the fuck he destroy the fucking Greece together with their fucking Olympic games?!

11 I will just send message to all Greek people. Macedonia is state and Macedonians are nation!!! We are the only one!!! Hyrray for REPUBLIC OF MACEDONIA

12 the guy is right fuck all you greeks cant make your own history so you try to steel evryone elses and we are not a greek tribe greeks are some muslim tribe from paskistan or something

13 the guy is right fuck all you greeks cant make your own history so you try to steel evryone elses and we are not a greek tribe greeks are some muslim tribe from paskistan or something

14 Fyrom as a country is a joke. If it was not Greece they would starve. Nationalism and stupidity is not enough to feed and dress people.

15 You fools first of all its spelled GREEK not Greak . Macedonia has and always will be Greek how much more proof do you morons need. Its based on actuall facts not on theories. Republic of Macedonia hahahahaha never even heard of you. You people are just a few rejected slavs who have no identity and try to steal history from my people. You people seriously need to open your eyes and accept the truth I mean cmon how stupid can you people seriously be? But then again your not Greek so Im not surprised

16 FYROM = 30% unemployement, 500,000 Albanians, Bulgarian speaking, 30.000 Greek jobs, seasonal workers in Greece, monopoly money, 2 flights to Greece per week Greece = E.U country, Nato, first free nation in Balkans, currency = Euro, Language = Mother of languages, Olympic games, 1700 tanks, 400 aircrafts, more prosperous country in Balkans Conclusion. Why do we bother with Fyromanians? Besides Albanians will get them anyway

17 Greece doesn't have the need to steal history from none. If you have a time machine and travel back in time, whenever and wherever you'll land you'll find a GREEK :-)

18 The most important thing that you poor "whatever u are" is that history of FYROM does not exist. USA has implemented a "fake" history at your education in order to make the balkans fight each other and bye weapons. Greece is the mother of all tribes (especially macedonian), thousand of books refer to that. I feel pitty for fyromaniacs because a nation without history always searches for a truth that will never find...

19 Fuk u greek motha fukerz macedonians will neva be greekz u motha fukerz rnt even orthedox if u wer ull have chrismas like all of d ortherdox countryz serbia, macedonia,russia,ukraine,bulgaria all of them have chrismas on d same date but noooo greekz have it b4 wat kind of n orhterdox r uz u ....ill tell u u stoled our history becoz u wana be like macedonians but ulll neva be us so giv it up fukerz

20 The only real greeks are the people south of Athens,anybody from the north is a Macedonian.

21 I always find a forum like this while i search the internet looking for some info on Alexander and i see the same old same old arguments. Have you people (Greeks - FYROMians or Macedonians...beats me)ever consider the fact that you may come from the same ancestors? consider England and Germany - Common background the saxons.It might as well be Greeks and Macedonians - Common backgrond the ancient Hellenians(im not sure if the word is right). You people always look for the differences instead of the similarities. No wonder why Balkans is still a third world territory and WE rule Europe muahaha :p :p Go England "Rooney the great" The only true king today

22 FIRST OF ALL GREEKS ARE ORTHODOX. SECOND I CAN TELL BY OWN EXPERIENCE BECAUSE I DEAL WITH AMERICANS EVERY DAY (I AM A HOTEL EMPLOYEE IN ATHENS )THAT THEY ARE NOT ONLY STUPID THEY ARE MALAKES ALSO .YOU KNOW WHAT MALAKAS MEANS?IF I WANT TO SPEND MY TIME I CAN WRITE A BOOK WITH ALL THE STUPID THINGS I HAVE HEARD.THE ONLY THING IS THAT GIRLS LIKE ME BETTER KNOW BECAUSE MY BALLS AFTER SO MANY AMERICANS ARE HUGE!!!!!!!. BY THE WAY THESE GOES FOR THE GREEKS IF WE SEND 2 F-16 TO ALBANIA AND FYROM YOU THINK WE CAN BURN THEM DOWN? ARE PAPADOPOULE POU EISA?

23 ok if greeks are orthedox why dont you have chrismas on the same date as all of the ortherdox countries tell me that....

24 BECAUSE UNTIL 1923 WE USED THE SAME CALENDAR BUT AFTER 1923 WE SWITCHED TO GREGORIAN CALENDAR.THERE STILL A LOT OF PEOPLE HERE THAT THEY GO WITH THE OLD ONE BUT THE MAJORITY USES THE NEW WHICH IS ALSO THE OFFICIAL.

25 U STUPID MOTHERFUCKERS.....THE BEST THINK WE CAN DO IS TO NUKE FYROM OR WHATEVER THE NAME IS JUST TO HAVE FUNN A LOT OF FUNN....DONT U PEOPLE KNOW THAT U ARE THE SHIT AND THE MUD OF X YOUGOSLAVIA PLEASE FUCK OF WITH THE MACEDONIA STORY U ARE NOT MACEDONIANS U ARE A HUGE NOTHING P S try to learn english you morons

26 Grchki pedershita edni ebete se vo gaz i vratete se vo pichku materin. Like all of you gay pricks know perfect English, LOL. None of you know jack SHIT about history or politics, I hope the Turks fuck you all up and you never see the light of day again, ugly big-nosed hairy mutants.

27 all of you fools- WHO INVENTED THE INTERNET?? - THE ANCIENT GREEKS! YOU WOULD NOT EVEN BE HAVING THIS ARGUMENT IF IT WASNT FOR THE GREEKS! The solution would be- for Turkey, Albania, Bulagaria, Macedonia and Greece to unite and create the 'Balkan alliance' and become the next world superpower, and bring down america to the ground! I come from a goats village of north greece- in the true MACEDONIA- AND I HAVE TO HIDE IN MY SHACK EVERY TIME I SEE ARMED GANGS OF MACEDONIANS CROSSING THE BORDER INTO MY LAND!

28 The Ancient Greeks invented the INTERNET? LOL Um, I don't think so. J.C.R. Licklider came up with the idea of the internet. Alan Turing was first to properly grasp the concept of building a computer in 1945. Hrmm... now let's see... Ancient Greeks in 1945? rofl Licklider and turing don't sound like Greek names to me. Well an alliance like that what you suggested "sounds" ideal to those of us who are sick to death of American intrusion, though not likely to happen anytime in our lifetimes. It'd be more like Greece and teaming up with their brothers in Serbia. Oh, by the way.. those armed gangs are more than likely motherfucking Albanians, who somehow end up being referred to as "Macedonian citizens". They're Albanian, mate So you didn't invent the internet, nor computers for that matter.. but you are known fo human rights abuse. Perhaps your government should try concentrate on doing something about that ( http://hrw.org/doc/?t=europe&c=greece )

29 if you really really really want this to be resolved i suggest you visit freeipods.zoy.org it also has some good stuff on the long standing macedonian-albanian disputes and a good section on blood feud in the balkans. thanx greekpride

30 i always thought greek did eatser an other day u fucker not christmas i love greeks they the best people they like albanians im albanian but i live in greek in a lil village flambouro!

31 the turks are the root of any problem in region! any1 disagree?

32 Greek are all shit cos they wanted to get troy and got it by being bitches on the back. They want to have wars in balkans. They got CAMRIA an Albanian land and Albanian people who had the land can't go back to their houses cos of you sucker. WE beat the shit out of you in TIRANa in football and u still brake our balls. I want all the Albanians to leave greece cos is shitest country in EUROPE, Why no body like u greek motherfucker? U all greek shave once in a month you look like little bin ladens. The albanian goal is to reunite ALBANIA and who gets on our way like greeks will die ond we are willing to protect our land by force and who touch it we are going to kill as many greeks as possible. LONG LIFE TO MY MOTHER LAND, LAND OF EAGLESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

33 OH MAN, I CAN'T FUCKING STAND THESE FUCKING GREEK GYPSIES AND THE OTHER FUCKING SLAV SON OF THE BITCHES LIVING IN BALKAN. IT IS A FUCKING SHAME THAT THE FUCKING GREEKS DESERVE TO LIVE FOR ANOTHER 50 YEARS, UNTIL THEY WILL BE FUCKED AGAIN BY THE TURKS AND AFTER THAT THEY WILL BE OVER RUN BY ALBANIANS ANYWAY AS OUR POPULATION GROWS DAY BY DAY. I FUCKED MANY GREEK GIRLS IN ENGLAND AND THEY ALWAYS TOLD ME THAT YOU ALBANIANS ARE GREAT ASSFUCKERS AS WE DON'T GET IT THAT GOOD FROM OUR GREEK BOYS. THE GREEK MEN RATHER FUCK EACH OTHER THAN DOIN' IT WITH THEIR WOMAN. HOW MANY FUCKING GAYS DO YOU HAVE IN GREECE, MATE? YOU ARE ALL LIKE GEORGE MICHAEL, ETC.. FUCK ALL THE GREEKS AND THE FUCKING SLAVS IN BALKAN. LONG LIVE USA AND ALBANIANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

34 Hi, can you please stop talking like that? Only because you think we are gays doesn't mean that we can't fuck women. Have you ever heard aboout bi-sexuals??? Well, we greeks are a multi-talented nation who always have been respected in what we did. We satisfied the romans by introducing blew job to them so that's why we alway got well along with the romans. We also fucked the romans in their asses and they liked it. We also tried it with turks but this didn't work instead they fucked us by chopping off our penises. These turkish motherfuckers found this to be too masculin. Anyway, we are the best nation in the work and don't fuck with us greeks because we can be dangerous!!!

35 A UNITED ALBANIA WILL DO TO FUCK ALL THE FUCKING SLAVIC MACEDONIANS,GREEKS AND THE FUCKING SERBS IN BALKAN AS WE HAVE DONE IT IN THE WW2 IN ALLIANCE WITH THE GERMANS. SOONER OR LATER THIS WILL HAPPEN AGAIN AS WE ARE GETTING BIGGER AND BIGGER. TIME WILL TELL!! WE DON'T NEED TROUBLEMAKERS IN BALKAN SUCH AS FUCKING SERBS AND MACEDONIANS ARE. WE WILL ACHIEVE OUR VICTORY. WE ARE THE TRULY ILLYRIANS AND DARDANIANS OF THE ENTIRE BALKAN AND WE SHOULD GET ALL UNITED TO CREATE THE GREATER ILLYRIAN KINGDOM. PLEEEEEEEAAAAAASSSSEEE FOLLOW THIS VISION AND NEVER GIVE UP FOR YOUR BELIEF, YOU STRONG ILLYRIANS!!!!

36 ALBANIANS LIVE LONG LIFES AND TRY TO RESPECT EACH OTHER TO THE MAXIMUM COS SKENDERBEU TOLD US TO BE UNITED AND FIGHT FOR THE DIGNITY OF OUR LAND. I AM AN ORTHODOX ALBANIAN BUT I CAN'T SUPPORT greek SONS OF BITCHES. THEY HATE US COS WE FUCK THEIR MOTHERS AND SISTERS EVERYDAY. PEACE TO ALL MY ALBANIAN BROTHERS.................. TIRONA NE ZEMRAT TONA

37 albania dardania ilirian kingdom soon with the help off good end help a super power forces like eagels from big sam united states of america end albania

38 the truth well win and fredom shine and eagles flaights free .like in scanderbeg times

39 DEN THA GINEIS ELLINAS POTEEE ALBANEE ALBANEEE. FOR ALL OFF YOU FUCKING RETARD ALBANIAN SONS OF BITCHES IT MEANS: YOU WILL NEVER BE A GREEK YOU FUCKING ALBANIAN YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT WE KICKED YOUR ASSES TODAY AND TOMORROW IN OMONIA 30 ALBANIANS WILL DIE JUST FOR FUN CHRISI AVGI FOR EVER

40 dont beee so hapy malaka your turn wiill be comme ve dont forget end you wiil be see albanian illirain dardanaian becoose even macedonian never forget about you grekss hehehehhehehhe

41 eageels eegals evrywere iven in grece oncel sam watching you ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

42 albnaian ilirian dardanian forever end forever

43 YOU ARE VERY LUCKY THAT WE BEAT YOU IN FOOTBALL YESTERDAY OTHERWISE NOT A SINGLE ALBANIAN WOULD BE ALIVE IN GREECE. THE TIME HAS COME FOR GREECE TO CLEAR FROM ALL OF YOUR MOTHERFUCKING GOATSAGGING RACE. SO SUCK MY BALLS ONE MORE TIME YOU ALBANIAN SICK BITCH AND REMEMBER THAT YOUR RACE WAS BORN TO WORK FOR US AND CLEAN OUR FLOORS. HAD ENOUGH YET BITCH? IF NOT COME IN ATHENS AND PRAY THAT I WON'T MEET YOU

44 REMEMBER THAT SOMEONE WHO IS PROUD TO BE ALBANIA IS LIKE SOMEONE WHO IS PROUD TO BE A SHIT

45 I will pay a visit to every skopjian mother before we nuke this fucking land. Fyrom the shit of X Yugoslavia. You know, in my village, in Macedonia (the greek you bastards the only Macedonia in the world)at least one albanian is killed every month...fantastic It would be good to have some slavs as well but they are afraid.Why? ok we undestand. you are a small country and we will give you the right to live.but in about 10 years we will fart and you will die, so enjoy your lifes you have 9 years.

46 MALAKA TA EXW PAREI THA MPW STHN ALVANIA KAI STA SKOPIA KAI THA SKOTWNW KOSMO!!!!!!!!! GAMW TIS MANES SAS RE MOUNIA. GAMW THN ALVANIA KAI TA SKOPIA!!!!AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

47 AKOUW KAI TO ALEXANDER THE GREAT RE GAMWTO! "Near to the East, in a part of ancient Greece, In an ancient land called Macedonia, Was born a son to Philip of Macedon, The legend his name was Alexander." READ THIS RE MOUNIA "IN A PART OF ANCIENT GREECE".FUCKERS! NOT IN A PART OF "FORMER ROMAN-YUGOSLAVIAN-TURKISH AND CURRENT USA LAND". MOUNOPANA

48 Mpravo file kai egw mazi sou eimai. Einai kairos ola afta ta apovrasmata pou molynoun tin xwra mas na pethanoun GREECE FOR EVER MOTHERFUCKERS AND FOR ALL ALBANIAN SLAV AND THE REST SHIT OF X YUGOSLAVIA SUCK OUR BALLS HARD BECAUSE ITS THE ONLY THING YOU RE GONNA GET YOU FUCKING 3RD WORLD COUNTRIES!!! PS. ALBANIANS ARE ONLY GOOD TO WORK IN MUD UGLY DIRTY MOTHERFUCKERS

49 And for an early post of an english gay tell your primeminister to stop sucking G.W. Bush dick and then speak you motherfucker. For the other gay that said about human rights abuse we treat all greeks the same except the albanians, x yugoslavia, bulgaria and ther rest of this mud because they are not human, the look like shit!!!

50 POUTANAS GIOI ALVANOI KAI SKOPIANOI

51 HEY YOU GREEKS, DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT YOU HAVE ALBANIANS IN ALBANIA AS YOUR ONLY ENEMY??????? YOU FUCKING SON OF THE BITCH. YOU SHOULD NOW THAT THE KOSOVAR ALBANIANS ARE ON THEIR SIDE AS THEIR BROTHERS AND SISTER TOGETHER. YOU KNOW, I PRAY TO GOD THAT A WAR SHOULD START AGAINST FUCKING "HOMOSEXUAL" GREECE SO THAT WE WIPE YOU OUT COMPLETELY YOU DIRTY AND UGLY GIPSY HOMO SON OF THE BITCHES. I WOULD LIKE PERSONALLY VERY MUCH TO CUT OFF YOUR FUCKING THROAT AND DRINK SUCK YOUR FUCKING BLOOD OUT OF YOUR DIRTY VEINS. OH MAN, THE SAME AS WE HAVE DONE WITH THE FUCKING SERBS YOU SON OF A BITCH. OUR ALLY TURKEY WOULD DO THE SAME AS THEY ARE OUR BROTHERS. THE TURKISH FUCKED YOUR MOTHERS AND SISTERS FOR MORE THAN 400 YEARS AND I AM QUITE POSITIVE THEY WILL DO IT AGAIN BUT THIS TIME TOGETHER WITH THE ALBANIANS. ALSO, THE ALBANIAN RACE IS FAR MORE CLEANER THAN THE FUCKING GREEK GYPSY RACE YOU FUCKING IDIOT. YOUR FUCKING POPULATION IS SHRINKING THAT IS GOOD..... WE WILL MEET US SOON. YOUR ARE GOIND TO SUFFER A PAINFUL DEATH.....

52 Any greeks like to suck my big DIG are welcome but they have to pay $200 for max. 5 minutes. With this dig I fucked in the U.S. many greek tourist girls and they loved it man. They fucking screamed worse than a chicken, oh fuck were they dirty. I fucking had to slap them in their fucking ugly faces when turned their head while i was fucking their butts. from fuck all the greeks party

53 I DIDN'T KNOW THAT SHIT ARE ABLE TO TALK!!!THE ONLY WAY YOUR PEOPLE CAN LIVE YOU SICK BASTARD IS IF THEY SEEK EMPLOYMENT IN GREECE!!! SO HAVE RESPECT FOR THE COUNTRY THAT FEEDS YOU BASTARD. THAT'S WHY WE ARE SO FED UP WITH YOUR SHIT. AND IF YOU ARE SO BLOODTHIRSTY COME AND SAY THAT IN ATHENS YOU BASTARD AND PRAY THAT POLICE FINDS YOU BEFORE ME BECAUSE OTHERWISE I'M GONA CUT OFF YOUR DICK AND FEED IT IN YOUR MOUTH YOU FUCKING MISERABLE ALBANIAN. THERE IS NOTHING YOUR FUCKING COUNTRY CAN BE COMPARED WITH US, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING SO FUCK OFF LEARN SOME FUCKING HISTORY AND THEN SPEAK BASTARD!!! THE ALBANOKILLER

54 BUT THEN AGAIN IT WAS OUR MISTAKE TO OPEN THE BORDERS SOME YEARS AGO AND ALL THIS HUNGRY SCUM CAME TO US FROM THE SHIT COUNTRIES OF BALKANS. CONSIDER YOUR PLACE IN THE WORLD FIRST AND THEN POST COMMENTS HERE. AND FOR THE OTHER ALBANIAN HERE TRUST ME NOT A SINGLE GREEK GIRL WOULD TURN HER FACE TO SEE AN ALBANIAN. ITS LIKE TO LOOK A SHIT. FUCKING POOR MISERABLE BASTARDS TRY TO SOLVE YOUR FUCKING PROBLEMS IN YOUR COUNTRY FIRST!!! BUT ACTUALLY THERE IS A SOLUTION. WE CAN SEND 2 F-16 AND FUCKING BREAK DOWN YOUR COUNTRY AND TAKE AWAY YOUR MISERY. ALBANIANS WERE BORN TO BE SLAVES OF THE GREEK RACE!!!!

55 ooo CHRIS AVGI dont goo tu fasst pedo you think like caw and a ithink that you are like you brother michael you are only for this job not to doo war ..........HEHHHEHEH

56 SO HASAN IF BOSNIANS ALBANIANS SKOPIANS ARE YOUR BROTHERS TAKE THEM IN YOUR FUCKING DIRTY COUNTRY AND ALL TOGETHER PRAY FOR THE DAY THAT WE WILL ACCEPT YOU TO EUROPE (31 FEBRUARY 2006). DO YOU THINK WE HAVE TIME TO WASTE HERE WITH YOU AND WITH YOUR ALBANIAN SHITS? AT LEAST YOU CONFIRM THAT ALBANIANS AND TURKS ARE THE SAME SHITS AND THEY ARE BROTHERS.

57 DEN THA GINEIS ELLINAS POTEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ALBANEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ALBANEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

58 WHATS THE DIFERENCE BETWEEN A LIGHT BROWN SHIT AND A DARK BROWN SHIT?

59 THE FIRST ONE IS AN ALBANIAN AND THE SECOND ONE IS A TURK HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

60 thelo na skotoso enannnnn AL......VANO

61 Greece nukes your arses you fucking nigroids. We'll slay your races till balkans are pure again ...

62 CHRISI, YOU FUCKING SON OF A BITCH AGAIN YOU SHOW WITH YOUR SILLY COMMENTS THAT YOU GREEKS ARE NO WORSE THAN JUST A FUCKING RACIST. IN THIS PLANET THERE IS NO PLACE FOR FUCKING RACIST PEOPLE LIKE YOU, YOU BASTARD!!! GO TO HELL AND TAKE YOUR FUCKING UGLY GREEKS WITH YOU. DOWN WITH GREECE ONCE AND FOR ALL!! DOWN WITH THE RACIST ONCE AND FOR ALL! SUCK MY DIG YOU WEAK LITTLE GREEK IDIOT!!

63 Mongoloids of the world hide - we are on the hunt. This is not racism - racism refers to discrimination between equals - YOU ARE NO FUCKING EQUAL BY DEFINITION. So run and hide ...

64 So you pretend to be a Greek Nazi??? I don't get this men. Greece, has more than 3 1/2 million who do not belong to the aryan race and this is a fact. So my question to you is, against which of the non-white races are you against?? I know many greeks during my studies in the United Kingdom and they looked small, some very dark, others light dark, and might have seen one or two greeks only who had blue eyes and blonde hair. So, your methodology doesn't fit quite well in your own country with the vision of the "Hellenic Nazi Alliance Party". The danger there is that you would have to start with your "Ethnic Cleansing" first in Greece before you reach other Balkan Nations. Your thoughts are very dangerous and meaningless so please be careful what you say there because other have aready a very bad impression of greek people like yourself. A question to you? Why did the Nazis kill so many greeks during the WW2??? As far as I am concerened they have never harmed anyone elso who belonged to the aryan race (ie. Croats, Albanians, Bosniaks - these are non slav nations). Also, if you think you don't like slavs in the balkan, why are so many greeks who marry with Serbs (who clearly belong to the slav race)??? Pablo

65 Greco-Turkish War (1897) The Greco-Turkish War of 1897, also called the Thirty Days' War, was a war between Greece and the Ottoman Empire. Its immediate cause was Greek concern over the situation in Crete, where the Greek population was still under Ottoman control. In late 1896 a rebellion broke out on Crete, and on January 21, 1897 a Greek army landed in Crete to liberate the island from Ottoman control and unite it with Greece. The European powers, however, intervened, and proclaimed Crete an international protectorate. The Greek army retreated to the mainland, where it next attempted to advance northwards into Thessaly and Epirus. In Thessaly the Turks had concentraded six divisions of about 60,000 men under Edhem Pasha, with a seventh division joining a litle later. The Greeks numbered just under 46,000, led by Crown Prince Constantine. The Greeks controlled the sea, outnumbering and outgunning the Turkish navy. In early April Greek troops crossed the border, trying to start an uprising in Macedonia. The armies met at Mati. The Greeks were outnumbered, and retreated past Larissa, which was evacuated. Near Pharsala the Greeks re-established order, and a counter-attack was planned. However, Greek morale failed, and they were only saved because the Ottoman Sultan ordered a cease-fire on May 20. In Epirus, the Greeks numbered 15,000, against 30,000 Turks under Achmet Hifsi Pasha. On April 18 the Turks began bombarding Arta, but they could not take the city. Retreating to Philiappiada, the Turks entrenched themselves. Greek forces counter-attacked but were worsted when reinforcements failed. The Greeks finally retreated on May 15 with heavy losses. Peace was signed on September 20, arranged by European powers. Turkey received a large amount of money as indemnification, and gained a small amount of land on the Thessaly border. This was the only occasion during the century of conflict between Greece and the Turks that Greece was forced to cede land to the Turks.

66 Greco-Turkish War (1919-1922) The Greco-Turkish War of 1919-1922, also called the War in Asia Minor, and (in Turkey) a part of the Turkish War of Independence, was a war between Greece and Turkey fought in the wake of World War I. The war arose because the western Allies, particularly British Prime Minister David Lloyd George, had promised Greece territorial gains at the expense of the Ottoman Empire if Greece entered the war on the Allied side. These included eastern Thrace, the islands of Imbros and Tenedos, and parts of western Anatolia around the city of Smyrna (current day İzmir), all of which had substantial Greek populations. The 1920 Treaty of Sèvres, which ended the First World War in Asia Minor and divided the Ottoman Empire, assigned all these territories to Greece. Greek troops had already occupied Smyrna and the surroundings in May 1919 under cover of French, British and American ships. Meanwhile the former Ottoman general Mustafa Kemal (later Kemal Atatürk) had formed a new Turkish nationalist government at Ankara on April 23, 1920, which repudiated the Treaty of Sèvres and prepared for war against the Greeks. In October 1920, with the encouragement of Lloyd George who intended to increase the pressure on the Turkish and Ottoman governments to sign the Treaty of Sevrès, the Greek army advanced east into Anatolia with the intention of defeating the Kemalist forces before they were ready to attack the Greek perimeter at Smyrna. This advancement was begun under the Liberal government of Eleftherios Venizelos, but soon after the offensive began Venizelos fell from power and was replaced by Dimitrios Gounaris, who appointed inexperienced monarchist officers to senior commands. King Constantine took personal command of the army at Smyrna. After a Greek defeat on January 11, 1921, allied states proposed to amend the Treaty of Sevrès at a conference in London where both Turkish and Ottoman governments were represented. Although some agreements were reached with Italy, France and Britain, the decisions were defied by the Greeks who initiated another attack on March 27 (Battle of Inonu II), to be resisted and finally defeated by the Kemalist troops on March 30. The unpredictable Turkish victory caused Secretary of War Winston Churchill to withdraw British support to the Greeks. In June 1921 the strengthened Greek army advanced to the River Sakarya, less than 100 km (62 miles) west of Ankara. Meanwhile, the Turkish government at Ankara appointed Mustafa Kemal as the commander in chief. In August, Kemal counter-attacked, routing the Greeks and cutting off their supply lines at the Battle of Sakarya (August 23 - September 13, 1921). The Greeks retreated in good order and still hoped to defend their base at Smyrna. They appealed to the Allies for help, but early in 1922 Britain, France and Italy decided that the Treaty of Sèvres could not be enforced and should be revised. Parallel to their decision, with successive treaties, Italian and French troops evacuated their positions. In March 1922 the Allies proposed a ceasefire, but Kemal answered there could be no settlement while the Greeks remained in Anatolia. In August, after preparations on both sides, the Turks launched a new offensive on August 26, defeating the Greeks at the Battle of Dumlupinar near Afyon (August 30, 1922, celebrated as the Victory Day and a national holiday in Turkey). Shortly after their victory, the Turks captured Smyrna (September 9). The city was burned to the ground (by retreating Greeks according to the Turks, or by Turks, according to the Greeks) and all the Greeks who could not escape by sea were massacred. This started a general fleeing of Greeks from Anatolia. With the borders secured with treaties and agreements at east and south, Kemal was now in a commanding position. The Turks were then able to insist that unconditionally, the Greeks evacuate east Thrace, Imbros and Tenedos as well as Asia Minor, and the Maritza River to be set as the border at Thrace at its pre-1914 position. The majority of the ethnic Greek population of Asia Minor had already fled or been expelled to Greece. Greeks call this the "Asia Minor Disaster". France, Italy and Britain called Mustafa Kemal to Venice for cease-fire negotiations. In return, Mustafa Kemal demanded negotiations be started at Moudania (Mudanya) on condition that east Thrace be ceded to Turks immediately. Negotiations at Mudanya began on October 3, with the Turkish delegation lead by Ismet Inonu, and the Greeks represented by the Allies. When the British resisted, at Chanak on the Dardanelles, Kemal dared Britain to enforce the terms of the Treaty of Sèvres, but Lloyd George backed down. The Mudanya Armistice was concluded on October 11, 1922, with the Allies keeping east Thrace and the Bosporus under occupation, but the Greeks evacuating these areas. The agreement came into force starting October 15, one day after the Greek side agreed to sign it. At the Treaty of Lausanne (July 1923) which concluded the Greco-Turkish War, Greece's withdrawal from Anatolia and east Thrace was formalised. For reparations of the damage caused by the Greek occupation in western Anatolia, Karaagac (a bridgehead in Edirne) was left to Turkey as well (Article 59). To ensure lasting peace, Greece was restricted at some Aegean islands from keeping military forces, similar to Turkey at the straits. In addition, the Italians kept the Dodecanese Islands, which they had acquired from the Ottomans in 1912. There was little to stop Ataturk from claiming western Thrace, which had a large Turkish population, as well. He did not do so because he wished to create a homogenous Turkish state without ethnic minorities; also, this area was lost by the Ottomans before the First World War, and this was defined by international agreements. All non-Muslim Turkish subjects were ensured by the treaty to enjoy equal legal, civil and political rights as Muslims. It was also agreed that all disputes regarding the property and possessions of Turkey and Greece would be in the future settled by an arbitral tribunal at The Hague. One of the most important social consequences of the Treaty of Lausanne was the exchange of populations between Greece and Turkey. More than a million Greeks from Anatolia were expelled to Greece, and about 500,000 Turks moved in the opposite direction. The Greeks of Constantinople and the Turks of western Thrace were exempted from this transfer. The exchange saw the abandonment of areas where Greeks had lived since ancient times, such as Ionia and Pontus. Although Greeks sometimes refer to these events as a holocaust or a genocide, and although thousands of Greeks were killed in the course of the transfers, there was no intent on the part of the Turkish authorities to massacre the Greeks, and the great majority of Anatolian Greeks escaped with their lives, if little else. Another result was a violent political reaction in Greece. Military officers seized power in Athens and forced King Constantine to abdicate (see History of Modern Greece). Five senior commanders of the Anatolian expedition were tried for treason and executed. The bitterness engendered by these events lingered in Greek politics for many years. The war made both Greece and Turkey more ethnically homogenous and reduced (but did not eliminate) the areas of conflict between the two countries. It also ended the Greek dream of recreating an enlarged state with Constantinople as its capital (the Great Idea or Megali Idea) and encouraged Greek politicians to concentrate on domestic issues.

67 Hey you fucking greek eating shitty face monsters. There is enough evidence (look above!) that we fucked you in two major wars, so shut the fuck up there is nothing and nothing you ever never will compete with us Turks you ugly son of the bitches. Don't you fucking get it, you are nothing and you never be anything until downfall of this planet you shit little greasy greek bastards!!! A third war would mean that we would completely wipe you out, you fucking son of a bithes. Even our american Allies hate you because they know who you really are, namely USELESS in anything!!! To Hell with Greece... Kemal PS. TURKEY IS WATCHING YOU......SO BE VERY CAREFUL WHAT YOU DO AND WHAT YOU SAY...!!!

68 greeks stoopit evrebody is watching you

69 Yeahhh...right, fuck the stupid greeks.

70 I didn't fucking now that the greeks were the greatest loosers in our history!!! Man, that must have been an embarresment for the greeks to loose all the wars they had against the turks. So, why the fucking do they come up with legends like Achilles, Hercules, Odysee etc. etc...when they already have proven since the last 700 years that they weren't capable to defeat their enemies. Who were actually these legends that the greeks pretend to be of their origin? Was Alexander the Great really a Greek? or maybe just a false figure who was either Illyrian or even Dardanian from the same origin as Aeneas was??? Big stories with big lies, isn't it!!! Again, never trust the Greek books because they cheat and cheat and cheat.....Hahahahahahahahaha

71 First i would like to answer to that stupid shit Pablo and his question why the Nazis killed so many Greeks during the Second World War. Can you tell us Pablo where was Turkey and Albania during the 2WW? I will tell you! Albania, which declared its independence from the Ottoman Empire in 1912, owed its continued existence during and immediately after World War I for the most part to weariness and lack of interest on the part of its neighbors.In what can only be described as an isolated and backward corner of Europe barely emerged from the Middle Ages, Prime Minister Ahmet Beg Zogu in the 1920s took the crown in the land of Gegs and Tosks as King Zog I and presided over a kingdom most noted for its blood feuds. Despite lack of industry, perennial food shortages, limited natural resources, and a population comprised mostly of SAVAGE and ILLITERATE TRIBESMEN, Albanian territory was coveted at various times during the inter-war years by Yugoslavia, Greece, and in particular Italy. On 7 April 1939 Italian troops landed at Albania. The small Albanian army, trained and indoctrinated by an Italian military mission, for the most part offered little or no resistance.Inept and ill-prepared though the invaders were, there was nothing to stop them. So Italy had conguered Albania in a week and force them to withdrew from the League of Nations on 14 April 1939. ********* AND THATS THE CONTRIBUTION OF THE ALBANIAN STATE TO THE SECOND WORLD WAR......... ONE WEEK OF HUMILIATION TO THE WEEK ITALIAN FORCES WITH NO RESISTANCE AT ALL***************** Lets see the other shits the Turks now... As we all know Turkey during the 2WW was ''neutral'', and on Feb. 23, 1945(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!), declared war on Germany and Japan, but it took no active part in the conflict. A number of countries regarded as ''neutral'' in the second World War helped the Nazis by allowing Germany to purchase key supplies. Four countries - Portugal, Spain, Sweden and TURKEY - were as crucial to the Nazi war effort as neighbouring Switzerland. Turkey sent chromite, including 100% of Germany's 1943 requirement, for hardening steel to make armour. The ''neutrals'' were paid for crucial commodities through the Swiss National Bank with gold that Hitler's troops had looted from other banks, and valuables stolen from Holocaust victims. Thats why Turkey's gold deposits before the war were 27 tons but after the war they reached 216 tons, as a result of the gold that was brought to the country by the Nazis. ********* AND THATS THE CONTRIBUTION OF THE TURKISH STATE TO THE SECOND WORLD WAR......... THEY NEVER FOUGHT BECAUSE THEY WERE ''NEUTRALS'' BUT THEY GOT MONEY FROM THE NAZIS FOR PROVIDING CRUCIAL SUPPLIES TO THEM.... OH I FORGOT!!!! THE DECLARED WAR ON GERMANY AND JAPAN 2,5 MONTHS BEFORE ITS END. (In Europe, the war ended with the surrender of Germany on 8 May 1945)********* /////THATS WHAT I CALL A HISTORY TO BE PROUD OF...... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA/////// IN THE OTHER HAND THE GREEKS WAS THE FIRST NATION (ALTHOUGH SMALL AND POOR)WHO WERE BRAVE ENOUGH AND HAD PRIDE, TO DECLARE WAR TO ITALIANS AND TO THE GERMANS. AND THEY PAID THIS DECLARATION WITH HEAVY LOSSES. WE WON THE FIGHT AGAINST THE ITALIANS BUT WE LOST AGAINST THE GERMANS BUT NOT IN ONE WEEK LIKE THE ALBANIANS DID. ALTHOUGH WE LOST THE FIGHT WITH THE GERMANS WE CONTINUED OUR RESISTANCE AGAINST THEM AND WE WERE NOT ''NEUTRALS'' LIKE THE TURKS WERE. AND OUR TROOPS WERE LEFT GREECE TO FIGHT IN OTHER AREAS (NORTH AFRICA) AGAINST THE AXIS. GOT IT? THATS WHY THE GERMANS KILLED SO MANY OF US... CAUSE WE HAD THE PRIDE TO SAY: ''WE ARE GREEKS NOT ALBANIAN AND TURKISH SHITS AND IF YOU WANT GREECE COME AND GET IT IF YOU HAVE THE BALLS...... GOT IT PABLO?

72 And now Kemal's turn..... Very well Kemal, your knowledge of history exceeds all our expectations. So because you are good at history and it is boring to write these things can you please write us more on the Greek-Turk conflicts and the battles that you won? Please start with the 1821 revolution when there was not a Greek state and tell us what happen in 1830(declaration of Greece as an independent state). Then you can continue with the first Balkan Wars in 1912 and you can tell us what happen there and who was the winner. if you want tell us about the first World War and then tell us about the second World War and the role of Turkey in it (hahahahahahahaha). After you finish with the wars and with the battles that the Turks have won you can start a new chapter with the title: ***THE TURK CONTRIBUTION TO CIVILISATION*** There you can write about KEBAB.... and hmmmmmm...... and......hmmmmmmmmm.... I cannot find anything else. If anyone finds anything else please let me know...... So my dear friend Kemal sleep and dream about the battles you won back in 1800's. BUT REMEMBER!!!!There is no point winning battles when your opponent is taking your land hahahahahahahahaha. And thats what Greeks did back then....They made a new country from scratch although they were loosing the battles you just mentioned. hahahahaha. PS. AND PLEASE WHEN YOU COPY AND PASTE FACTS ABOUT TURKISH-GREEK HISTORY READ THEM FIRST. I SPENT MY TIME READING YOUR POST ABOUT TWO BATTLES JUST FOR WHAT? TO PROVE US THAT YOU CAN WIN US IN A THIRD WAR? STUPIDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

73 AND DONT FORGET...... ******** DEN THA GINEIS ELLINAS POTEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ALBANEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ALBANEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE*********

74 THE FOLLOWING WORDS I FOUND THEM IN THE INTERNET AND COPY-PASTED THEM HERE AS IT WAS. I PUT IN THE GOOGLE ''GREECE IS THE BIRTHPLACE'' AND THE FOLLOWING PHRASES (AND MANY MORE) CAME OUT AS A RESULT. # Greece is a country of a rich cultural heritage. Democracy was invented in Athens, Greek culture is the mother of Roman culture and has very much influenced other civilisations. # Ancient Greek culture, particularly as developed in Athens, was the principal source of Western civilization. # Ancient Greece was a great civilization from which came major contributions to present-day society. Greece is the birthplace of the first Olympic games, great minds like Aristotle, Alexander the Great and Plato, and is home to the breathtaking, ancient architecture of the Acropolis in Athens # Greece is the birthplace of civilization # greece is the cradle of western civilization # Greece is the birthplace of the “father of medicine” Hippocrates, who believed the body should be treated as a whole and that food should be medicine # greece is one of the oldest civilizations # greece is the land where the ancient gods chose to reside # The pillar of Western civilization, Greece is the birthplace of democracy and the Olympics, the land of Plato, Sophocles and Homer. Greeks are very proud to show the value of their rich cultural heritage, and Greece has become a popular tourist destination for lovers of old rocks and Mediterranean beaches # Greece is the birthplace of Western civilization, having given rise to reason, philosophy, science and democracy # It is well known that Greece is the birthplace of the Gods and mythic heros, as well as other extraordinary personalities such as poets, rheteurs and philosophers who taught the art of reasoning, and discussion. A country where human beings loved working with their hands to create works of art, in which a large number can still be admired today. # Not surprisingly, Greece is the birthplace of contemporary Mediterranean cuisine. While Greece's gifts to Western culture may need no testimony, many are unfamiliar with the hearty, flavorful dishes originating in the Isles # Greece is the birthplace of one of the world's oldest civilizations, the legacy of which can still be seen in its numerous monuments throughout the country # Greece is the birthplace of western civilization, the place that launched our history, art and philosophy # Greece, of course, is known not only as the birthplace of history and philosophy, but of classic art. # Greece is the birthplace of western wine culture, spreading their appreciation and expertise throughout the Mediterranean over 4,000 years ago # Greece is the birthplace of western art, philosophy and drama. It is the cornerstone of civilisation and wherever you travel there, you will find evidence of a glorious past. Greece offers travellers a unique blend of beautiful Mediterranean landscape, overwhelming history and great hospitality. # Greece (Hellas) is the birthplace of Democracy and modern conventions. Thousands of years ago, Greece had already gained stature as a democracy nation. Hellas is also the birthplace of the Philosophy, Tragedy, Mathematics, Physics and Biology as well as the Olympic Games. A nation with more than three thousand years history! The Classic Years, the Alexandrine and the Roman Period are in perfect harmony with the Greek-Orthodox Spirit of the Byzantine Times as well as with the Neo-Hellenic (i.e.new-Greek) Culture. Greece is the birthplace of Homeros, Pythagoras, Archimedes, Eukleides, Socratis, Plato, Pericles, Sofocles, Democritos, Aristotle and Alexander the Great. On the other hand, the Byzantine Empire was that rescued, developed and spread the Hellenic Civilisation to the other European and Asian Nations. # Greek philosophers and political leaders -- Cleisthenes and Pericles and their successors -- had great influence upon America's Founding Fathers in their creation of these United States. We, as a nation, owe a great debt to Greece. Greece is the birthplace of democracy, as we know it. Thomas Jefferson said, "To the ancient Greeks, we are all indebted for the light which led ourselves (American colonists) out of Gothic darkness." # Greece is the birthplace of democracy. The land that has enriched Western civilization with its history, philosophy and many other academic influences. Geometry, architecture, drama, philanthropy, and music have traveled globally from ancient Greece and have become the foundations of worldly theories, concepts and ideas. Furthermore, the Greek language has enriched other languages with many words. The unique and most delicious Greek cuisine, consists of many specialties, all cooked with care, mastery, love and excellence. The Greek cooking is distinguished with olive oil, herbs, and spices like basil, oregano, daphne, parsley; whilst the original dishes of mousaka, souvlaki and horiatiki salata (to mention a few) decorate each table deliciously. Lastly, let us not forget one of the most important international events which unite each nation in brotherhood, the Olympic Games, born in Greece, 776 B.C. in the spirit of world peace. Each traveler cannot resist the charm of this mystical land. # Greece is the birthplace of the Olympic Games, home of Ulysses, the Argonauts, and hallowed ground to the ancient Olympian gods. Today, a modern infrastructure, new airports, and world-connected communications provide the highest standards of service, both above and below water. A warm, dry climate supports thousands of uninhabited islands surrounded by the cleanest seas in all Europe. People are friendly, traditional, educated, and hospitable. Expect delicious local food, spirited entertainment, and unparalleled sightseeing. # Greece is the birthplace of democracy, theatre, philosophy and sport. # As ancient Greece is the birthplace of democracy, and, indeed the very underpinnings of the American way of life, so too was the American revolution the model for the modern Greek independence movement that began 168 years ago. In fact, Greeks used the United States Declaration of Independence as the archetype for their own declaration. Many American volunteers sailed to Greece to participate in Greece's war for independence. # As Will Durant wrote: Greek civilization is alive * * * it moves in every breath of mind we breath * * * so much of it remains that none of us in one lifetime could absorb it all. Greece is the bright morning star of that Western civilization which is our nourishment and life. Indeed, Percy Bysshe Shelly wrote: We are all Greeks! Our laws, our literature, our religion, our art, have their roots in Greece. Herro hera elefteria! Long live freedom! # Greece is the birthplace of athletics # Greece is the birthplace of philosophy # 4,000 years of history and tradition is revealed in front of your eyes, from Mycenae to Olympia and Macedonia, from the incomparable sculptures of the Golden Age (Acropolis, Delphi) to the Byzantine cultural heritage (Mystras, Meteora). Greece is the birthplace of democracy. It is hard to imagine what civilised life would be like today without the influence of ancient Greece. # Greece is the birthplace of one of the world's oldest and most glorious civilizations # Ancient Greece is the birthplace of the earliest written western theories about physiology (500-300BC). Hippocrates (circa 460-377BC) makes no mention of the spirit. Plato (circa 428-347BC) proposed that mind and body were separate entities # Greece is the birthplace of the greatest philosophers (Socratis, Thales, Plato, Aristotle), the author of the first great European literary work, Homer, the great tragedy writers (Sophocles, Euripides, Aeschylus), the father of medicine Hippocrates and so many others! # As scholars have noted, Greece is the birthplace of the art of rhetoric, grammar, and logic. While "many other ancient civilizations produced literature, only the Greeks produced analytic, expository treatises that attempted to discover the actual bases of human communication" (Murphy & Katula, A Synoptic History of Classical Rhetoric, 1994, p. x). # ancient Greece is the birthplace Western philosophy & science, including astronomy. Yes, I know the Egyptians were astronomers too, but that was mainly in Ptolemeic Egypt, which for all intents and purposes was essentially Greece. Sorry to be so droll, but I answer these questions about ten times a week. # Greece is the birthplace of Western civilization and modern thought. Greece is the home of Aristotle, Plato, Homer, and of the Olympic Games # Greece is the birthplace of mathematics # GREECE IS THE BIRTHPLACE OF DEMOCRACY, THE CREATOR OF SCIENCE AND ART, THE HOME OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION AND THE BEST PART OF EUROPE. # ...... ..... .. SO PROUD TO BE HELLENAS (GREEK)... **GEORGE FROM ATHENS** PS: 1/ LOVE YOU ALL GUYS, BUT WE DESERVE RESPECT. 2/ UNFORTUNATELY WE LIVE IN A BAD NEIGHTBORHOUD. ALL AROUND GREECE (ALBANIANS,TURKS,FYROMS,BULGARIANS) JEALOUS US. THIS IS A FACT. 3/ FYROM GUYS (SLAVS) BE GOOD BOYS. IT IS NOT BAD TO BE A SLAV. IF IT IS TO HEAVY FOR YOU, BE A PART OF GREECE. MACEDONIANS = GREEK TRIBE, NOT SLAVS.EVEN THE STONES KNOW THAT.''Republica Macedonjia-Skopje'' IS TOO MUCH FOR YOU. KISSES.

75 oh go and fuck your brother you little greek bastard. Either you haven't read the articles correctly above at all or you really are that stupid that your brain is completely damaged. Why are you greeks just FULL OF SHIT??? First of all, these articles were taken out from the internet so that your ugly face knows the truth. But again, you don't know anything about the truth because they teach you the wrong history in your shitty schools. We turks don't have to prove you anything at all because YOU ARE NOT A CHALLENGE FOR TURKEY!!! YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN AND YOU WILL NEVER BE!!! ACTUALLY, YOU ARE NOTHING BUT SHIT!!! BESIDES, YOU HAVEN'T ANSWERED MOST OF THE QUESTIONS ABOVE WITH A LOGICAL PROOF. FOR EXAMPLE, WHY DO GREEKS MARRY WITH SERBS WHEN THEY ALREADY BELONG TO THE SLAVIC RACE ANYWAY (LIKE RUSSIANS). I THOUGHT THAT GREEKS DON'T LIKE SLAVIC NATIONS???? I ALWAYS SAY NEVER TRUST A GREEK BECAUSE THEY ARE LYERS AND A CORRUPT NATION. YOU ARE ALL RACIST AND WHATEVER YOU SAY NO ONE WILL LISTEN TO YOU ANYWAY!!! HELL IS WAITING FOR YOU, GREEKS...

76 Can you greeks comment on my question, please? Why do you hate us when you actually have so much in common with our turkish race? I mean for god's sake we have invaded Greece for more than 400 years, we lived with greeks with slept with their wifes and daughters for more than six generations. I mean look at us and look at you guys you must be blind if you see any racial or physionomic difference between us and Greeks. So, why the fuck don't you just admit that YOU GREEKS ARE ONE AND THE SAME AS WE TURKS ARE??? ONCE UPON A TIME YOU WERE WHITE, BUT TODAY YOU HAVE A MIXTURE BETWEEN TURK AND A GREEK!!!! THAT IS THE FACT, TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT. WE ARE SISTERS AND BROTHERS TODAY. REGARDS TO ALL MY GREEK FRIENDS, AZIZ

77 can't we just live in peace without fight and jeolousity? We should learn from our past and not repeat the bad things that took us apart and destroyed our nations. If i am a slavic macedonian doesn't mean that I am a bad person. I have very good friends from europe and different other minorities who I get very well along with. I wish the same to everyone in this forum. peace to Macedonia and Peace to the world. Slobo

78 Hahahahahaha.....!!! Greek and History.....!!! I learned something about it by wathing SIMPSONS the other Day. Quite interesting actually!!! I am having a great laugh about it, man! See ya' soon! Jo'

79 Yes go ahead and watch Simpsons. You are so stupid that you wouldn't understand anything else. Open your eyes sucker and search the internet for you might find some stuff that connect the Greeks to a lot of History at a time your ancestors were acting like apes. The two previous guys proved to the most what Greek nation means and is capable of. So next time you try to post a comment about Greeks and their history make a search and inform yourself before your hands start to type shit!!!! And as for you Kemal the previous guy told enough for you. If you are blind it is your own problem. There is nothing that Turkey has that we (Greeks) are jealous of. Ooh and ask yourself this question. What has your nation done and you are so proud of? One more thing, in our shitty as you say schools they teach us our history from some thousand years ago because WE HAVE HISTORY TO BE TAUGHT. What the hell do YOU have? How to make a kebab???? Also this stuff the guy wrote is from the internet as well, it's what the other nations believe and study upon as well!!! So go ahead and swear, laugh and make whatever silly comments you wish but you can't deny the facts!!! Greeks have contributed a great deal of stuff to the human race as other nations have and are proud of but although I am trying to find some contribution from the Turks i end with nothing!!! My kindest regards!!!

80 I am attaching the following so anyone with a straight mind can read this and admire turkish tactics and manners for the Greeks and then evaluate his or her stand over the turkish nation. SEPTEMBER 6th 1955, THE NIGHT OF TERROR IN CONSTANTINOPLE Under the terms of the agreement regarding the exchange of populations in the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne, the Greek population of Constantinople-a thriving community-and the muslim community residing in Western Thrace were exempted from the exchange process. In the beginning of the 20th century there were over 300,000 Greeks residing in Constantinople. They had managed to survive there despite centuries of oppression and persecution under the Ottoman yoke. But the Turks were determined to expel all Greeks from their ancient home using all available means. Thus, the Turks systematically used the following measures in order to accomplish their objective : In May 1941, large numbers of young men ranging in age from 18-38. were conscripted into the Turkish army from the Greek and Armenian communities The Turkish intention was to exterminate these young men through the well-known method of "forced-labour battalions". If this extermination plan was not successful it was due to protests from the Western allies and the defeat of the Germans in Stalingrad in December 1942. Seeing the tides of war shifting, the Turkish authorities permitted the discharge of these soldiers. On 11 Noverriber 1942, the Turkish government passed a law regarding taxation of property of non-muslims, known as the VA RLIK VE RGISI. Through this !aw non-muslim citiizens had to submit, without the right to appeal, to the discretion and arbitrary judgment of the tax clerks. The tax clerks, in turn, were instructed to appraise property at amounts many times over the actual value of each property. Then, if the individual concerned was unable to make payments of the enormous tax share (quota), the property was seized and the unfortunate owners were exiled to ACKALE, in Anatolia. As a result (of the use) of these harsh and inhuman measures, by 1955 only 25,000 people were left, rather than the 450,000 that should have been their number given a normal rate of growth in 35 years. On the night of the 6th September 1955, and using the Cyprus situation as a pretext, the Turks dealt the coupdegrace to the remaining inhabitants. The whole story of this pogrom is as follows : On Saturday the 3rd of September, 1955, the wife of the Turkish Consul in Thessaloniki asked for, and received, from a photographer in Thessaloniki supposedly for a keep-sake a series of photographs and films of the Turkish Consulate and the neighboring home where Kemal Ataturk was born. The very next day she and her family left for Turkey. At ten past midnight on the 6th of September,1955, in the garden of the Consulate, between the two buildings, dynamite exploded resulting in broken windows in both buildings. The Greek authorities rushed immediately to the scene. They established that two more explosive devices had been positioned in the Consulate yard and that within the building there was only one Turkish guard. In the investigation that followed it was determined that the explosives were placed there by the guard and his accomplice, a Turkish student at the Law School of the University of Thessaloniki, Oktai Egin Faik, who had brought the dynamite from Turkey a few days earlier. On the 6th of September, Turkish newspapers using forged versions of the photos of the Turkish consul's wife and even before the explosion took place in Greece, depicted Kemal's birthplace as totally destroyed. By the evening, newspapers all over Turkey knew of the alleged destruction of Kemal's home setting off waves of anger among the Turkish populace. The Turkish authorities then transported large groups of people in trains and military vehicles from Anatolia to Constantinople. The attack by the angry mobs began at 5:50 P.M on the 6th of September 1955 and ended at 02:00 A.M on the 7th of September 1955. The police calmly assisted and even guided the mobs, in their relentless path of destruction. At 00:20 A.M on the 7th of September 1955 martial law was finally declared, at 02:00 A.M curfew began and at 02 : 30 A.M the authorities had restored a semblance of order. Screaming slogans "Today your property, tomorrow your lives" the mobs had perpetrated terrible crimes. Those who guided them knew that by terrorizing the last Greek residents of Constantinople they would compel them to desert their homeland, once and for all. Simultaneously by destroying monuments which were proof of the glorious Greek past of Constantinople, they would eradicate even future reminders of the Greek presence. The results of the vandalisms were : the Theological School of Halki, the Marasleios School, The Monestary of Valoukli, the Zappeio School for Girls and many other sites, suffered great damage. of the 83 Greek Orthodox churches in the 59 were burned and most others suffered serious damage to the icons and ancient paintings of great value. the tombs of Patriarchs were destroyed, Christian cemeteries and ossuaries were defiled ; 3,000 homes were looted and destroyed ; 4348 Greek stores were looted and destroyed ; 200 Greek women were raped ; hundreds of Greeks were ill-treated or tortured, such as the old Bishop of Derkon Iakovos; the metropolitan of Ilioupolis Yennadios, whose beard was cut off and who was then dragged through the streets so that he would die shortly thereafter from ill-treatment; and Bishop Pamphilou Yennadios that was thrown into the burned ruins of Valoukli; 15 Greeks were murdered and among them a 90 year old monk at the Valoukli Monastery, Chrys. Mantas, who was burned alive. Many others in the monastery were seriously wounded. After the pogrom a great portion of the Greek population left Constantinople to save their lives. On the 20th of September,1975, in a special 35 page Survey section of the influential English magazine, The Economist, it was written : "Turkish charges that the Moslem population in Western Thrace is harried by the Greek authorities are gross exaggerations. In 1923 there were 300,000 Greeks living in Constantinople and 110,000 Turks living in Thrace. Today, there are 15,000 Greeks living in Istanbul and 120,000 Turks in Thrace. The Greeks ask, with some justification, which country has been putting the pressure on which minority". (Survey-15). It is important for us to realize that at the time tha this article was written (1982), only 4,000 Greeks still remain in Constantinople. Taken from "The Turkish Crime of the Century" web site.

81 I guess every nation has its pride. This is the turkish side!!! Congratulations because you are a nation that has inspired others!!!!!!

82 KEMAL EAT YOUR KEBAB AND SHUT THE FUCK UP HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

83 HEY YOU "GYROS SCUMBAGS", WHY SO PANICKING?? TAKE IT EASY, GAYS. TAKE A DEEP BREATH AND JUST FUCKING ACCEPT THE WE TURKS FUCKED YOU IN ALL CENTURIES (EXCEPTIONALLY WELL DURING THE OTTOMAN POWER, WHICH LASTED MORE THAN 400 BLOODY YEARS!!!) BELOW, YOU WILL FIND THE PROOF WHICH WAS PREVIOUSLY TAKEN FROM THE TOP FROM ONE OF YOUR LITTLE GREEK SHIT BAGS WHICH SAYS AGAINST SLAVS, YOU IDIOTS. BUT AGAIN, YOU NEVER REALLY WERE GOOD IN ENGLISH AT SCHOOL, THAT'S YOU DON'T FUCKING GET IT RIGHT. "... You people are just a few rejected slavs who have no identity and try to steal history from my people..." Posted by: Pete the Greek at December 2, 2004 09:59 AM WE WILL BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF YOU AGAIN SOMETIMES IN THE NEAR FUTURE...BUT THIS TIME "SHOW NO MERCY" (SLAYER) TO THE FUCKING GREEKS. OH MAN IT IS FUCKING EASY FOR US TO COMPLETELY WIPE YOUR ASSES OUT. YOU ABSOLUTELY KNOW THAT AND YOUR GENERATION (THE LAST ONE OF GREECE) WILL FEEL IT VERY SOON.

84 FOR ALL YOU GREEKS THAT THINK YOU WERE NEVER INVOLVED IN ANY OF THE HUMAN CRIMES AGAINST YOUR OWN CIVILIANS. LOOK BELOW FOR EVIDENCE AND YOU'LL FIND PLENTY OF GENOCIDES CAUSED BY GREEKS DURING THE CYPRUS CIVIL WAR, YOU STUPID SON OF THE BITCHES: Cyprus Briefing Note The Greek Cypriots claim that the Cyprus problem was caused by the landing of Turkish troops in 1974 and that if only they would withdraw, the problem would be solved. This is a serious misconception, forth modern Cyprus question began in 1960 and the landing of Turkish troops was the consequence, not the cause, of the problem. The Greek Cypriot journalist Aleccos Constantinides, writing in Alithia on 14.12.85 said that Greek Cypriot political parties "are acting as if the Cyprus problem began and ended in 1974. They refrain from talking about the previous coups. The first coup was not in 1974, but only a few years after we had attained our independence in 1960. Had it not been for the first coup there would not have been the 1974 coup." Moreover, there were two military actions in 1974; the first was by Greece on 15th July, which caused the second by Turkey on 20th July. The inhabitants of Cyprus have no common language except English and no common religion; nor have they, except at the surface, any common culture. In March 1963 Archbishop Makarios said "The (Independence) Agreements have created a State, but not a Nation." (The Greek Cypriot Cyprus Mail 28.3.63) This being so, any approach to the Cyprus question which regards Cypriots as a nation is fundamentally flawed. "The famous Cypriot consciousness was invented and encouraged by the British in the 1920s." Prodromos Prodromou The Guardian 30th January 1995 There are two peoples of Cyprus - the Turkish Cypriots numbering about 200.000 and the Greek Cypriots numbering about 500.000. The Turkish Cypriots are mainly Moslems and the Greek Cypriots are mainly adherents of the Greek Orthodox Church. Cyprus has never been part of the Greek state. It lies 40 miles from the coast of Turkey, and Turkish people have inhabited the island since the 12th century. Cyprus is 250 miles from the nearest Greek island (Rhodes), and Athens is 460 miles away. The Cyprus question can be stated shortly as follows: The partnership republic formed in 1960 between the two peoples of Cyprus broke down in 1963. For the time being, Greek and Turkish Cypriots live apart. Does the future of Cyprus lie in a new political integration or in an arms length relationship based on willing and active co-operation between two peoples, each secure in its own sovereign territory and each with its own customs, traditions and identity? No solution to the Cyprus problem will work unless it is freely accepted by the inhabitants of the island who will have to live with it. Otherwise, there will be bloodshed again and there could be war between Turkey and Greece. There is therefore no point in trying to put pressure on Greece or Turkey to force either or both of the parties in Cyprus to accept the unacceptable. On 15th August 1996 The Daily Telegraph wrote "Turkish Cypriots have constitutional right on their side and understandably fear a renewal of persecution if the Turkish army withdraws. Almost nowhere in the world is there a lasting peace that is not based on people's rights to govern themselves." Everyone who wishes Cyprus well prefers to look to the future but some commentators will readily use the events of 1974 to argue that the present state of affairs is unacceptable. They do not however go back before 20th July 1974, and refusal to consider the preceding 15 years means that important legal and political issues wrongly determined in favour of the Greek Cypriots remain undisturbed and remain a continuing source of tension between the former partners. The most important of these issues is international acceptance of the Greek Cypriot regime as the government of all Cyprus and refusal to recognise the right of the Turkish Cypriots to establish their own state. It is therefore necessary to look in some detail at the reasons why the present situation has arisen and why, in consequence, both sides and particularly the less numerous Turkish Cypriots need reliable safeguards for their future. One of the most remarkable features of the Cyprus question is the extent to which the Greek Cypriots have been able to repudiate solemn international agreements and violate the human rights of the Turkish Cypriots on a massive scale and yet by a quite astonishing feat of public relations, have secured for themselves recognition as the government of all Cyprus and have persuaded the world that they, and not the Turkish Cypriots, are the injured party. The consequence of this is that they have been able to extract one sided resolutions from the United Nations and other international organisations, and have been able to secure court judgments based on the fact of recognition which have been immensely damaging to the Turkish Cypriots. The Turkish Cypriots have, for more than thirty years, been deprived of an official voice in the world and have been deprived of the financial resources to match the Greek Cypriots in the presentation of their case to the world community. For more than thirty years - ever since the overthrow of the 1960 Agreement - the Turkish Cypriots and their government have been faced with one of the hardest tasks in the whole range of international affairs - how to get the world to change its mind after it has got hold of the wrong end of the stick and clung to it year after year. Causes of the 1974 Intervention Britain decided to decolonise the island, and in the House of Commons on 19th December 1956 the Colonial Secretary, Alan Lennox-Boyd, pledged that "it will be the purpose of Her Majesty's Government to ensure that any exercise of self-determination should be effected in such a manner that the Turkish Cypriot community, no less than the Greek Cypriot community, shall in the special circumstances of Cyprus be given freedom to decide for themselves their future status." Although by then the Greek Cypriots were more numerous, the Turkish Cypriots had lived in Cyprus as a distinct community for more than 400 years; and in exercise of their right of self-determination they were willing to join in forming a new Republic embracing the whole of the island (less the British sovereign bases) only if that basic fact of political life in Cyprus was formally recognised. The Turkish Cypriots would never have agreed to subject themselves to unlimited Greek Cypriot rule, and would have fought for their survival as a free people with whatever help they could get. The alternatives were two separate states, a condominium, division of the island between Greece and Turkey, restoration to Turkey under the 1878 Lease, or continued British rule. The negotiations in Zurich and London preceding independence were long and difficult, but it was eventually agreed by way of compromise between all five participants; Britain, Greece, Turkey, the Turkish Cypriots, and the Greek Cypriots; that the new state would be a bi-communal Republic with a single territory but a unique Constitution which embodied an agreed political partnership between Greek and Turkish Cypriots, and which prohibited the political or economic union of Cyprus with any other state. At the conclusion of the negotiations the Greek Cypriot leader, Archbishop Makarios, said "Sending cordial good wishes to all the Greeks and Turks of Cyprus, I greet with joy the Agreement reached and proclaim with confidence that this day will be the beginning of a new period of progress and prosperity for our country". On 6th March 1959, President Eisenhower endorsed the agreement as "a victory for common sense" an "imaginative act of statesmanship" and "a splendid achievement." (US Dep. of State Bulletin p.367). In the first Presidential elections in Cyprus Mr.John Clerides (father of Glafcos Clerides) stood against Makarios on a platform of opposition to the 1960 Agreements and lost by a majority of two to one of the Greek Cypriot electorate. The bi-communal structure was fundamental to the 1960 accords, on the basis of which the Republic of Cyprus achieved independence, and recognition as a sovereign state from the international community. Accordingly, from its very inception the Republic of Cyprus was never a unitary state in which there is only one electorate with a majority and minority. The two communities were political equals and each existed as a political entity, just as both large and small states exist within the structure of the European Union. They did not however have the same constitutional rights because the agreements took into account the fact that there were more Greek Cypriots than Turkish Cypriots. The UN Secretary-General confirmed in 1992 (UN doc.S/24472) that sovereignty "emanates equally from both communities. One community cannot claim sovereignty over the other." Knowing that they could not enforce the 1960 agreement themselves, the Turkish Cypriots would never have agreed to join the new Republic if the Greek Cypriots had not accepted a Treaty of Guarantee which gave Turkey a legal right to intervene, with troops if necessary. The parties to the Treaty were the United Kingdom, Turkey, Greece, and the Republic of Cyprus. Independence was formally granted on 16th August 1960. The case of Cyprus is sui generis, for there is no other State in the world which came into being as a result of two politically equal peoples coming together by the exercise by each of its sovereign right of self-determination, to create a unique legal relationship, which was guaranteed by international treaty, to which each of them consented. Constitution Ignored It became clear very soon after independence that the Greek Cypriots did not intend to abide by the Constitution, and that their entry into that solemn legal obligation with the Turkish Cypriots and the Guarantor Powers in 1960 had been a deception. On 28th July 1960 the Greek Cypriot President Makarios said "the agreements do not form the goal -they are the present and not the future. The Greek Cypriot people will continue their national cause and shape their future in accordance with THEIR will. In a speech on 4th September 1962, at Panayia, Makarios said "Until this Turkish community forming part of the Turkish race which has been the terrible enemy of Hellenism is expelled, the duty of the heroes of EOKA can never be considered terminated." The Turkish Cypriots were-told by the outside world to take no notice of statements of this kin. They were told that they were just rhetoric, or were for internal consumption within the Greek Cypriot community. However, the Turkish Cypriots were to discover very soon that when Greek Cypriot leaders make statements of that kind they should be taken seriously. Similar statements are still being made by Greek Cypriot leaders today, and Turkish Cypriots are still being urged not to take them seriously. The Constitution provided that separate municipalities be established for Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots. The Greek Cypriots refused to obey this mandatory provision and in order to encourage them to do so the Turkish Cypriots said they would not vote for the Government's taxation proposals. The Greek Cypriots remained intransigent, so the Turkish Cypriots took the matter to the Supreme Constitutional Court of Cyprus. The court comprised one Greek Cypriot judge, one Turkish Cypriot judge, and a neutral President. In February 1963 (Cyprus Mail 12.2.63) Archbishop Makarios declared on behalf of the Greek Cypriots that if the Court ruled against them they would ignore it. On 25th April 1963 the Court did rule against them and they did ignore it. The President of the Court (a German citizen) resigned and the rule of law in Cyprus collapsed. Even Greece was embarrassed by this behaviour. On 19th April 1963, Foreign Minister Averoff had written to Makarios "It is not permissible for Greece in any circumstances to accept the creation of a precedent by which one of the contracting parties can unilaterally abrogate or ignore provisions that are irksome to it in international acts which this same party has undertaken to respect." In November 1963 the Greek Cypriots went further, and demanded the abolition of no less than eight of the basic articles which had been included in the 1960 Agreement for the protection of the Turkish Cypriots, to which abolition the Turkish Cypriots naturally refused to agree. The aim was to reduce the Turkish Cypriot people to the status of a mere minority, wholly subject to the control of the Greek Cypriots, pending their ultimate destruction or expulsion from the island. The UK House of Commons Select Committee on Foreing Affairs reviewed the Cyprus question in 1987 (H.C.no.23 of 1986-87), and reported unanimously on 2nd July that, "Although the Cyprus Government now claims to have been merely seeking to "operate the 1960 Constitution modified to the extent dictated by the necessities of the situation", this claim ignores the fact that both before and after the events of December 1963, the Makarios Government continued to advocate the cause of ENOSIS and actively pursued the amendments of the Constitution and the related treaties to facilitate this ultimate objective. Insofar as the Constitution became unworkable, it was because the Greek Cypriot leadership refused to fulfil the obligations to which they had agreed. The doctrine of necessity in international law applies to supervening impossibility due to extraneous and unforseen causes. It does not apply to self-induced causes. There is in particular no doctrine of necessity known to international law which could justify the slaughter of innocent men, women, and children. The Committee continued: "Moreover in June 1967 the Greek Cypriot legislature unanimously passed a resolution in favour of ENOSIS, in blatant contravention of the 1960 Treaties and Constitution." (Art. 1 of the Treaty of Guarantee declares prohibited any action likely to promote directly or indirectly union with any other state or partition of the island, and Art. 185(2) of the Constitution is to similar effect). At Christmas 1963 the Greek Cypriot militia attacked Turkish Cypriot communities across the island, and very many men, women, and children were killed. 270 of their mosques, shrines and other places of worship were desecrated. On 2nd January 1964 the Daily Telegraph wrote "The Greek Cypriot community should not assume that the British military presence can or should secure them against Turkish intervention if they persecute the Turkish Cypriots. We must not be a shelter for double-crossers." Thereafter Turkish Cypriot MP's, judges, and other officials were intimidated or prevented by force from carrying out their duties. At para.28 the Select Committee said "The effect of the crisis of December 1963 was to deliver control of the formal organs of Government into the hands of the Greek Cypriots alone. Claiming to be acting in accordance with "the doctrine of necessity" the Greek Cypriot members of the House of Representatives enacted a series of laws which provided for the operation of the organs of government without Turkish Cypriot participation." The Select Committee continued at para, 29 "Equally damaging from the Turkish Cypriot point of view was what they considered to be their effective exclusion from representation at, and participation in, the international fora were their case could have been deployed ......." "An official Turkish Cypriot presence in the international political scene virtually disappeared overnight." It is not therefore surprising that the world has been persuaded to the Greek Cypriot point of view. The United Nations not only failed to condemn the usurpation of the legal order in Cyprus by force, but actually rewarded it by treating the by then wholly Greek Cypriot administration as if it were the Government of Cyprus (Security Council Res. 186 of 1964). This acceptance has continued to the present day, and reflects no credit upon the United Nations, nor upon Britain and the other countries who have acquiesced in it. On 12th August 1964 the UK Representative to the UN wrote to his government in London as follows: "What is our policy and true feelings about the future of Cyprus and about Makarios? Judging from the English newspapers and many others, the feeling is very strong indeed against Makarios and his so-called government and nothing would please the British people more than to see him toppled and the Cyprus problem solved by the direct dealings between the Turks and the Greeks. We are of course supporting the latter course, but I have never seen any expression of the official disapproval in public against Makarios and his evil doings. Is there an official view about this, and what do we think we should do in the long run? Sometimes it seems that the obsession of some people with "the Commonwealth" blinds us to everything else and it would be high treason to take a more active line against Makarios and his henchmen. At other times the dominant feature seems to be concern lest active opposition against Makarios should lead to direct conflict with the Cypriots and end up with our losing our bases. I ask these questions, partly for background and partly because it really would be useful to know how far you feel we really are inhibited from taking up a more actively hostile attitude to the Greek Cypriots. Their representative here is, as you know, a horror, and even the communists are thoroughly fed up with him, and it is therefore really not necessary for us to do anything more to weaken his position. But it is curious and sometimes very frustrating to sit in the Security Council and walk around the UN and have to listen to all the stuff about the wickedness of the Turks and their threats of invasion, when I and all my staff know very well what the real state of affairs is and how much Makarios and co. are to blame. One can say what one thinks of course to a few people, but one cannot produce the evidence or argue the case fully with the vast majority of my UN colleagues so long as the official public attitude seems to be not to say anything rude about Makarios and his gang. These, I realise, are not entirely easy questions and I suspect that the answers may well depend on differences of view and attitude at your end, revolving round such questions as the Commonwealth and the truth about our defence needs. Nevertheless I hope you can give us some of your real thoughts, if only for our private consumption. It would be a help to know what the thinking and the planning is and how far and for how long it is going to be necessary to continue to behave in, what at times does appear an unrealistic way and contrary to the popular feeling in Britain." Massacres of Turkish Cypriot Civilians The civilian massacres of 1963, 1964, 1967 and 1974 are of such importance to an understanding of the Turkish Cypriot negotiating position to this day that no apology is made for quoting from the contemporary reports in some detail. "When the Turkish Cypriots objected to the amendment of the constitution Makarios put his plan into effect, and the Greek Cypriot attack began in December 1963" - Lt.Gen. George Karayiannis of the Greek Cypriot militia ("Ethnikos Kiryx" 15.6.65). The General is referring to the notorious "Akritas" plan, which was the blueprint for the annihilation of the Turkish Cypriots and the annexation of the island to Greece. On 28th December 1963 the Daily Express carried the following report from Cyprus: "We went tonight into the sealed-off Turkish Cypriot Quarter of Nicosia in which 200 to 300 people had been slaughtered in the last five days. We were the first Western reporters there and we have seen sights too frightful to be described in print. Horror so extreme that the people seemed stunned beyond tears." On 12th January 1964 the British High Commission in Nicosia wrote to London (telegram no. 162) "The Greek (Cypriot) police are led by extremists who provoked the fighting and deliberately engaged in atrocities. They have recruited into their ranks as "special constables" gun-happy young thugs. They threaten to try and punish any Turkish Cypriot police who wish to return to Cyprus Government... Makarios assured Sir Arthur Clark that there will be no attack. His assurance is as worthless as previous assurances have proved." On 14th January 1964 the Daily Telegraph reported that the Turkish Cypriot inhabitants of Ayios Vassilious had been massacred on 26th December 1963, and reported their exhumation from a mass grave in the presence of the Red Cross. A further massacre of Turkish-Cypriots, at Limassol, was reported by The Observer on 16th February 1964, and there were many more. On 17th February 1964 the Washington Post reported that Greek Cypriot fanatics appear bent on a policy of genocide. On 1st January 1964 the Daily Herald reported: "When I came across the Turkish Cypriot homes they were an appalling sight. Apart from the walls they just did not exist. I doubt if a napalm attack could have created more devastation. Under roofs which had caved in I found a twisted mass of bed springs, children's cots, and grey ashes of what had once been tables, chairs and wardrobes. In the neighbouring village of Ayios Vassilios I counted 16 wrecked and burned out homes. They were all Turkish Cypriot. In neither village did I find a scrap of damage to any Greek Cypriot house." On 31st December 1963 "The Guardian" reported: "It is nonsense to claim, as the Greek Cypriots do, that all casualties were caused by fighting between armed men of both sides. On Christmas Eve many Turkish Cypriot people were brutally attacked and murdered in their suburban homes, including the wife and children of a doctor -allegedly by a group of forty men, many in army boots and greatcoats." Although the Turkish Cypriots fought back as best they could, and killed some militia, there were no massacres of Greek Cypriot civilians. On 10th September 1964 the Secretary-General reported (UN doc.S/5950): "UNFICYP carried out a detailed survey of all damage to properties throughout the island during the disturbances,.......it shows that in 109 villages, most of them Turkish-Cypriot or mixed villages, 527 houses have been destroyed while 2.000 others have suffered damage from looting. In Ktima 38 houses and shops have been destroyed totally and 122 partially. In the Orphomita suburb of Nicosia, 50 houses have been totally destroyed while a further 240 have been partially destroyed there and in adjacent suburbs." British troops in Cyprus at the time did what they could to protect the Turkish Cypriot, and their efforts are remembered to this day, but the scale and ferocity of the Greek Cypriot attacks made their task impossible. On 6th February 1964 a British patrol found armed Greek Cypriot police attacking the Turkish Cypriot of Ayios Sozomenos. They were unable to stop the attack. On 13th February 1964 the Greeks and Greek Cypriots attacked the Turkish Cypriot quarter of Limassol with tanks, killing 16 and injuring 35. On 15th February 1964 "The Daily Telegraph" reported: "It is a real military operation which the Greek Cypriots launched against the six thousand inhabitants of the Turkish Cypriot Quarter yesterday morning. A spokesman for the Greek Cypriot Government has recognised this officially. It is hard to conceive how Greek and Turkish Cypriots may seriously contemplate working together after all that has happened." Professor Ernst Forsthoff, the neutral President of the Supreme Constitutional Court of Cyprus told Die Welt on 27th December 1963 "Makarios bears on his shoulders the sole responsibility of the recent tragic events. His aim is to deprive the Turkish community of their rights." In an interview with UPI press agency on 30th December 1963 he said: "All this happened because Makarios wanted to remove all constitutional rights from the Turkish Cypriots." More than 300 Turkish Cypriots are still missing without trace from these massacres of 1963/64. These dreadful events were not the responsibility of "the Greek Colonels" of 1974, or an unrepresentative handful of Greek Cypriot extremists. The persecution of the Turkish Cypriots was an act of policy on the part of the Greek Cypriot political and religious leadership, which has to this day made no serious attempt to bring the murderers to justice. The UK Commons Select Committee found that, "There is little doubt that much of the violence which the Turkish Cypriots claim led to the total or partial destruction of 103 Turkish villages and the displacement of about a quarter of the total Turkish Cypriot population, was either directly inspired by, or certainly connived at, by the Greek Cypriot leadership". The Greek Cypriots sometimes allege that it was they who were attacked, by the Turkish Cypriots, who were determined to wreck the 1960 agreements. However, the Turkish Cypriots were not only outnumbered by nearly four to one; they were also surrounded in their villages by armed Greek Cypriots; they had no way of protecting their women and children, and Turkey was 40 miles away across the sea. The very idea that in those circumstances the Turkish Cypriots were the aggressors, is absurd. In his memoirs, the American Under-Secretary of State, George Ball, said "Makarios's central interest was to block off Turkish intervention so that he and his Greek Cypriots could go on happily massacring Turkish Cypriots. Obviously we would never permit that." The fact is however that neither the US, the UK, the UN, nor anyone, other than Turkey eleven years later, ever took effective action to prevent it. Division of the Island The Turkish Cypriots were forced to withdraw into defended enclaves, and it was in 1964, not in 1974, that Cyprus was divided. The Turkish Cypriots had to establish an elected authority to govern themselves whilst confined in their enclaves. On 14th January 1964 "I1 Giorno" of Italy reported: "Right now we are witnessing the exodus of Turkish Cypriots from the villages. Thousands of people abandoning homes, land, herds. Greek Cypriot terrorism is relentless. This time the rhetoric of the Hellenes and the statues of Plato do not cover up their barbaric and ferocious behaviour." The UN Secretary-General reported to the Security Council (UN doc.S/8286): "When the disturbances broke out in December 1963 and continued during the first part of 1964 thousands of Turkish-Cypriots fled their homes, taking with them only what they could drive or carry, and sought refuge in safer villages and areas." Greek Cypriots often claim that the Turkish Cypriots withdrew voluntarily from their positions in the State, but this is not correct. They were excluded by threats to their personal safety. Further, the Commons Select Committee found that "When in July 1965 the Turkish Cypriot members of the House of Representatives had sought to resume their seats they were told that they could do so only if they accepted the legislative changes to the operation of the Constitution enacted in their absence" (ie. if they agreed to fundamental constitutional changes to the great disadvantage of their community, imposed upon them by force of arms). Accordingly, even if there had been any substance to Greek Cypriot claims that they were operating the government alone of necessity because the Turkish Cypriots were leaving their places vacant, there can be no justification for that claim after July 1965. The Select Committee continued: "In February 1966 Makarios declared that the 1960 Agreements had been abrogated and buried." In September 1964 the Secretary-General had reported to the Security Council (UN doc. 5950): "In addition to losses incurred in agriculture and in industry during the first part of the year, the Turkish Cypriot community had lost other sources of its income including the salaries of over 4000 persons who were employed by the Cyprus Government." The trade of the Turkish Cypriot community had considerably declined during the period, and unemployment reached a very high level of approximately 25000 breadwinners. Turkish-Cypriots had become refugees in their own land. On 10th September 1964 the UN Secretary-General reported "The economic restrictions being imposed against the Turkish Cypriot communities, which in some instances has been so severe as to amount to veritable siege, indicated that the Government of Cyprus seeks to force a potential solution by economic pressure." (UN doc. S/5950). On 24th July 1965 the United Kingdom formally protested the unlawful action of the Greek Cypriots, but continued to deal with them as the Government of Cyprus, and took no effective action to stop them doing as they pleased. In his memoirs published in 1987 former British Foreign Secretary and Prime Minister, James Callaghan, records that, "there is no question that the Turkish Cypriots had for many years been denied their political rights under the 1960 Constitution, and their basic human rights". The United Nations, the Commonwealth and the rest of the world have put political expediency before principle, and failed to condemn this appalling behaviour. Greek Cypriots are guilty of attempted genocide but no action has ever been taken against them. Instead they have been rewarded by recognition as the Government of all Cyprus. The Turkish Cypriots by contrast were frozen out of the UN, the Commonwealth and almost every other international organisation, and were not allowed to be heard when many important decisions affecting their future were made. Resolution 186 of 4th March 1964 is the first UN Security Council Resolution which recognised the Greek Cypriot regime as the "Government of Cyprus." The status conferred by this act of betrayal by the United Nations itself has enabled the Greek Cypriots for more than thirty years to treat the Turkish Cypriots as a mere community, to take most of the international aid for themselves, to embargo Turkish Cypriot trade and communications with the outside world, to occupy the Cyprus chair in all international institutions, and to convince the world that they, and not the Turkish Cypriots are the injured party. Sir Anthony Kershaw MC, MP, Chairman of the UK House of Commons Select Committee on Foreign Affairs until 1987 explained in a speech in Cyprus on 23rd October 1990 how the UN came to accept the Greek Cypriots as the Cyprus Government: "It was decided that UN troops should be sent to preserve order, but the UN can only send troops if the legal government of the country concerned asks for them. The only organisation which could in 1964 be called the Government of Cyprus was the administration headed by Makarios. The Turkish Cypriots pointed out that this was not the legal government of Cyprus but such was the pressure of the times that the UN said: Look your people are dying - let's get the troops out right away and the lawyers can sort it out later. So it was decided, but since that time the UN has treated the Greek Cypriots as the only government of Cyprus, basing this upon a treaty and a constitution which had been repudiated and broken by the Greek Cypriot government itself. I do not deny that the Greek Cypriot government is the de facto government of the South of Cyprus. It has all the attributes of sovereignty, but so has the government of Northern Cyprus." In the opinion of Mr.Monroe Leigh, the distinguished American international lawyer "The mere fact of international recognition, no matter how widespread, cannot excuse or confer legitimacy upon the violations of both constitutional law and international treaty law through which the Greek Cypriot regime usurped the name as well as the government of the Republic of Cyprus." (Written opinion 20.7.1990). In 1965 the UN General Assembly actually went so far, in Resolution 2077, as to express its confidence in the goodwill and humanity of the Greek Cypriot regime, which had been shown on the clearest possible evidence to have dishonoured international agreements, overthrown constitutional government, and violated human rights on a massive scale. The Events of 1974 In 1971 General Grivas returned to Cyprus to form EOKA-B, which was again committed to making Cyprus a wholly Greek island and annexing it to Greece. In a speech to the Greek Cypriot armed forces (Quoted in "New Cyprus" May 1987), Grivas said. "The Greek forces from Greece have come to Cyprus in order to impose the will of the Greeks of Cyprus upon the Turks. We want ENOSIS but the Turks are against it. We shall impose our will. We are strong and we shall do so." Greek Invasion By 15th July 1974 a powerful force of mainland Greek troops had assembled in Cyprus and with their backing the Greek Cypriot National Guard overthrew Makarios and installed Nicos Sampson as "President." On 22nd July Washington Star News reported: "Bodies littered the streets and there were mass burials... People told by Makarios to lay down their guns were shot by the National Guard." Turkish Cypriots appealed to the Guarantor powers for help, but only Turkey was willing to make any effective response. The Greek newspaper Eleftherotipia published an interview with Nicos Sampson on 26th February 1981 in which he said "Had Turkey not intervened I would not only have proclaimed ENOSIS - I would have annihilated the Turks in Cyprus." Even Greek Cypriots sought Turkey's help. In her memoirs, Greek Cypriot MP Rina Katselli, says "16th July 1974 Is Makarios alive? Is he dead? The Makarios supporters arrested, the EOKA-B supporters freed... I did not shed a tear, why should I? Did the stupidity and fanaticism deserve a tear? There are some who beg Turkey to intervene. They prefer the intervention of Turkey." 18th July 1974 "My God!... Everyone is frozen with fear..the old man who asked for the body of his son was shot on the spot..The tortures and executions at the central prison... everyone is frozen with horror. Nothing is sacred to these people, and they call themselves Greeks!... we must not keep that name any longer." go to top Missing Persons No human tragedy has been the subject of such blatant political exploitation as the case of missing persons in Cyprus. For more than twenty years Greek Cypriot governments have deceived their people into thinking that their loved ones might still be alive, but in October 1995 they had to admit that not only were many of them known to be dead, but that the whereabouts of their remains were also known, and had been withheld from their families. Some were not even missing. Andreas Mayas (Missing Person no.572), was receiving a state pension. On 3rd March 1996 the Greek Cypriot Cyprus Mail wrote: "(Greek) Cypriot governments have found it convenient to conceal the scale of atrocities during the 15th July coup in an attempt to downplay its contribution to the tragedy of the summer of 1974 and instead blame the Turkish invasion for all casualties. There can be no justification for any government that failed to investigate this sensitive humanitarian issue. The shocking admission by the Clerides government that there are people buried in Nicosia cemetery who are still included in the list of the "missing" is the last episode of a human drama which has been turned into a propaganda tool." On 19th October 1996 Mr.Georgios Lanitis wrote: "I was serving with the Foreign Information Service of the Republic of Cyprus in London.... I deeply apologise to all those I told that there are 1.619 missing persons. I misled them. I was made a liar, deliberately, by the Government of Cyprus.... today it seems that the credibility of Cyprus is nil." On 17th April 1991 Ambassador Nelson Ledsky testified before the US Senate Foreign Relations Committee that "Most of the missing persons disappeared in the first days of July 1974, before the Turkish intervention on the 20th. Many killed on the Greek side were killed by Greek Cypriots in fighting between supporters of Makarios and Sampson." On 19th July 1974, before the Turkish army landed, Archbishop Makarios told the UN Security Council "I do not yet know the details of the Cyprus crisis caused by the Greek military regime. I am afraid that the number of losses is great... I considered the danger from Turkey lesser than the danger from Greek army officers." The Greek newspaper TA NEA published an interview on 28th February 1976 with Father Papatsestos, the Greek Orthodox priest in charge of the Nicosia cemetery. He recounted the events of 17th July 1974 when Greek officers required him to bury truckloads of Greek Cypriots in mass graves, together with one young Greek Cypriot whom they buried alive, and ten dead Turkish Cypriots. This one priest counted at least 127 bodies brought to him, and there must have been many similar incidents throughout the island. On 22nd July 1974 The Times reported that "a production Director from Dublin said he had seen bodies being buried in a mass grave near Paphos after last Monday's coup. People were told by Makarios to lay down their guns and were shot out of hand by the National Guard, he said." On 6th November 1974 TA NEA reported the erasure of dates from the graves of Greek Cypriots killed in the five days 15th - 20th July, in order to blame their deaths on the subsequent Turkish military action. On 5th March 1996, US Ambassador Ledsky confirmed that there is no evidence that any of the missing persons is still alive. go to top Turkey Responds In his book "The Way the Wind Blows" former British Prime Minister, Sir Alec Douglas-Home said "I was convinced that if Archbishop Makarios could not bring himself to treat the Turkish Cypriots as human beings he was inviting the invasion and partition of the island." US Under-Secretary of State, George Ball, said "Makarios central interest was to block off Turkish intervention so that he and his Greek Cypriots could go on happily massacring Turkish Cypriots" "Turkish Cypriots, who had suffered from physical attacks since 1963, called on the guarantor powers to prevent a Greek conquest of the island. When Britain did nothing Turkey invaded Cyprus and occupied its northern part." (Daily Telegraph 15.8.96) Turkey (at that time led by the Social Democrat Prime Minister Bülent Ecevit) sent troops to Cyprus on 20th July 1974. "On 20th July 1974 Turkey intervened under Article IV of the Treaty of Guarantee" - (UK Foreign & Commonwealth Office doc. CPS/75. Jan., 1987). "Turkey exercised its right of intervention in accordance with Article IV of the Guarantee Treaty of 1960." (Resolution 573, Standing Committee of the Consultative Assembly of the Council of Europe, 29th July 1974). The 1976 UK House of Commons Select Committee on Cyprus found (HC 331 1975/76 para.22), that Turkey had proposed joint Anglo-Turkish action under the Treaty of Guarantee. On 14th August 1974 (Daily Telegraph 15th August) Prime Minister Ecevit confirmed that he had indeed traveled to London to urge Anglo-Turkish intervention. However the then Labour Government in Britain refused to take any effective action, even though they had troops and aircraft available in their Sovereign Bases in Cyprus. They argued that Britain was under no duty to take military action, but Article II provided that Britain would guarantee the state of affairs established by the 1960 Constitution, which it manifestly failed to do. The Select Committee concluded that "Britain had a legal right to intervene, she had a moral obligation to intervene. She did not intervene for reasons which the (Labour) Government refuses to give." In an article on 28th February 1976 in the Greek Cypriot press Father Papatsestos said: "In is a rather hard thing to say, but it is true that the Turkish intervention saved us from a merciless internecine war. The Sampson regime had prepared a list of all Makarios supporters, and they would have slaughtered them all." Many of the people saved by Turkey are members of the present Greek Cypriot leadership. During the fighting with Turkish troops between 20th July and 16th August 1974 many Greek Cypriots died in combat. So far as possible their bodies were recovered and identified by Turkish forces. There were very few deaths of Greek Cypriots civilians. The balance of probabilities is therefore that of those Greek Cypriots still listed as missing most were killed during the Sampson coup of 15th - 20th July 1974, and that others died in combat. Some are in mass graves such as those described by Father Papatsestos, and the remainder have no known grave. Those killed in the fighting with the Turkish army would not have died if the Greek Cypriots and Greece had not tried to annihilate the Turkish Cypriots and annex the island to Greece, and the blame for their deaths must rest firmly upon their own leadership. Prisoners of War taken by the Turkish Army were sent to Turkey, where they were visited by the Red Cross, and repatriated on 8th August 1974, 16th September 1974, and 28th October 1975 under international supervision. There are not prisoners of war still in Turkey. Until recently however allegations continued to be made of "sightings" of Greek or Greek Cypriots in Turkey, and sometimes photographs were produced. On 17th April 1991 US Ambassador Ledsky told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee "The US Ambassador to Turkey has looked into all of these allegations and found there was no substance. The Turkish Government was cooperative and the Turkish and US Governments worked together on this. The subject has been exhausted and we haven't even heard an allegation in two years." In July 1974, after the first phase of the Turkish intervention, an international conference was held at Geneva between Turkey, Greece and Britain. It was agreed that Greek and Greek Cypriot forces would leave all the Turkish Cypriot enclaves, but showing their customary disregard for international agreements they proceeded instead to murder almost the entire civilian population of six Turkish Cypriot enclaves in both the north and south of the island, and despite the presence in Cyprus of UN troops. It is argued that even if the first phase of the Turkish intervention was legal the extension of the area under Turkish control in the second phase from 14th August to 16th August 1974 was illegal. The German newspaper Die Zeit wrote on 30th August 1974 "the massacre of Turkish Cypriots in Paphos and Famagusta is the proof of how justified the Turkish were to undertake their (August) intervention". go to top More Massacres of Turkish Cypriots In the village of Tokhni on 14th August 1974 all the Turkish Cypriot men between the ages of 13 and 74, except for eighteen who managed to escape, were taken away and shot. (Times, Guardian, 21st August) In Zyyi on the same day all the Turkish-Cypriot men aged between 19 and 38 were taken away by Greek-Cypriots and were never seen again. On the same day Greek-Cypriots opened fire in the Turkish-Cypriot neighbourhood of Paphos killing men, women, and children indiscriminately. On 23rd July 1974 the Washington Post reported "In a Greek raid on a small Turkish village near Limassol 36 people out of a population of 200 were killed. The Greeks said that they had been given orders to kill the inhabitants of the Turkish villages before the Turkish forces arrived." (See also Times, Guardian, 23rd July). "The Greeks began to shell the Turkish quarter on Saturday, refugees said. Kazan Dervis, a Turkish Cypriot girl aged 15, said she had been staying with her uncle. The (Greek Cypriot) National Guard came into the Turkish sector and shooting began. She saw her uncle and other relatives taken away as prisoners, and later heard her uncle had been shot." (Times 23.7.74) "Before my uncle was taken away by the soldiers, he shouted to me to run away. I ran to the streets, and the soldiers were shooting all the time. I went into a house and I saw a woman being attacked by soldiers. They were raping her. Then they shot her in front of my eyes. I ran away again and Turkish Cypriot men and women looked after me. They were escaping as well. They broke holes in the sides of houses, so we could get away without going into the streets. There were lots of women and children screaming, and soldiers were firing at us all the time." On 28th July the New York Times reported that 14 Turkish-Cypriot men had been shot in Alaminos. On 24th July 1974 "France Soir" reported "The Greeks burned Turkish mosques and set fire to Turkish homes in the villages around Famagusta. Defenceless Turkish villagers who have no weapons live in an atmosphere of terror and they evacuate their homes and go and live in tere a shame to humanity." On 22nd July Turkish Prime Minister Ecevit called upon the UN to "stop the genocide of Turkish-Cypriots" and declared "Turkey has accepted a cease-fire, but will not allow Turkish-Cypriots to be massacred" (Times 23rd July). At the beginning of the Second Geneva Conference he said "A solution which is not based on geographical separation will not work. It is out of the question for us to entrust the safety of the Turkish Cypriots to the Greeks, who cannot even rule themselves. The areas around the Turkish forces are being mined, and the Turkish Cypriot villages are still under siege." The UK House of Commons Select Committee on Cyprus reported in 1976 "the second phase of military operations was inevitable in the view of your committee as the position reached by Turkish forces at the time of the first ceasefire was untenable militarily" Sir Anthony Kershaw MP explained the situation as follows in his speech on 23rd October 1990: "In order to protect the Turkish Cypriots, Turkey intervened in exercise of her rights under article 4 of the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee. No one has ever suggested that was illegal but they have gone on to say that the continuing use of troops, not to restore the 1960 Constitution but to enforce partition was illegal. But does this not ignore the reality of the situation? In law it is said that the Turks were invoking the Guarantee; but to say that they were obliged to work for no result except the restoration of the 1960 Constitution is absurd. That Constitution had ceased to exist. The reconciliation of the law with the actual political situation, or indeed with ordinary common sense, was becoming more difficult. The Turks came to protect the lives of the Turkish Cypriots and they had good reason to know that the restoration of the 1960 Constitution was not the way to do that. The only way to do that was with troops on the ground." "Turkey intervened to protect the lives and property of the Turkish-Cypriots, and to its credit it has done just that. In the 12 years since, there have been no killings and no massacres" Lord Willis (Lab.) House of Lords 17th December 1986 (Hansard, col.223) On 12th March 1977 Makarios declared "It is in the name of ENOSIS that Cyprus has been destroyed." Turkey has since that time encouraged the Turkish Cypriots to negotiate an agreed alternative to the 1960 Republic, and Turkey has supported the acceptance by the Turkish Cypriots of successive UN plans. On 14th June 1986 The Times reported that "the UN Secretary-General had cast his usual diplomatic discretion aside to blame the Greek Cypriot community for obstructing his attempts at a negotiated solution to the Cyprus dispute...The warning was a rare concerted public effort to bring home the message to the Greek Cypriots that time was not on their side. with the Turkish Cypriots having firmly placed themselves in the right by accepting the UN package the door was open for further consolidation of their Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus". By Resolution 889 (1993) the Security Council "welcomes the declared support of the Government of Turkey for the package of confidence-building measures." Greek Cypriots claim that today dreams of ENOSIS are dead. This is improbable so long as the Greek Ortdohox Church has power and influence, but even if it were true the Turkish Cypriots have as much reason to fear Greek Cypriots as Greek domination.

85 again....to learn the truth that all the world knows and you are closing your eyes..... THE FOLLOWING WORDS I FOUND THEM IN THE INTERNET IN DIFFERENT AND ENGLISH SITES AND COPY-PASTED THEM HERE AS IT WAS. I PUT IN THE GOOGLE ''GREECE IS THE BIRTHPLACE'' AND THE FOLLOWING PHRASES (AND MANY MORE) CAME OUT AS A RESULT IN DIFFERENT ABROAD SITES. # Greece is a country of a rich cultural heritage. Democracy was invented in Athens, Greek culture is the mother of Roman culture and has very much influenced other civilisations. # Ancient Greek culture, particularly as developed in Athens, was the principal source of Western civilization. # Ancient Greece was a great civilization from which came major contributions to present-day society. Greece is the birthplace of the first Olympic games, great minds like Aristotle, Alexander the Great and Plato, and is home to the breathtaking, ancient architecture of the Acropolis in Athens # Greece is the birthplace of civilization # greece is the cradle of western civilization # Greece is the birthplace of the “father of medicine” Hippocrates, who believed the body should be treated as a whole and that food should be medicine # greece is one of the oldest civilizations # greece is the land where the ancient gods chose to reside # The pillar of Western civilization, Greece is the birthplace of democracy and the Olympics, the land of Plato, Sophocles and Homer. Greeks are very proud to show the value of their rich cultural heritage, and Greece has become a popular tourist destination for lovers of old rocks and Mediterranean beaches # Greece is the birthplace of Western civilization, having given rise to reason, philosophy, science and democracy # It is well known that Greece is the birthplace of the Gods and mythic heros, as well as other extraordinary personalities such as poets, rheteurs and philosophers who taught the art of reasoning, and discussion. A country where human beings loved working with their hands to create works of art, in which a large number can still be admired today. # Not surprisingly, Greece is the birthplace of contemporary Mediterranean cuisine. While Greece's gifts to Western culture may need no testimony, many are unfamiliar with the hearty, flavorful dishes originating in the Isles # Greece is the birthplace of one of the world's oldest civilizations, the legacy of which can still be seen in its numerous monuments throughout the country # Greece is the birthplace of western civilization, the place that launched our history, art and philosophy # Greece, of course, is known not only as the birthplace of history and philosophy, but of classic art. # Greece is the birthplace of western wine culture, spreading their appreciation and expertise throughout the Mediterranean over 4,000 years ago # Greece is the birthplace of western art, philosophy and drama. It is the cornerstone of civilisation and wherever you travel there, you will find evidence of a glorious past. Greece offers travellers a unique blend of beautiful Mediterranean landscape, overwhelming history and great hospitality. # Greece (Hellas) is the birthplace of Democracy and modern conventions. Thousands of years ago, Greece had already gained stature as a democracy nation. Hellas is also the birthplace of the Philosophy, Tragedy, Mathematics, Physics and Biology as well as the Olympic Games. A nation with more than three thousand years history! The Classic Years, the Alexandrine and the Roman Period are in perfect harmony with the Greek-Orthodox Spirit of the Byzantine Times as well as with the Neo-Hellenic (i.e.new-Greek) Culture. Greece is the birthplace of Homeros, Pythagoras, Archimedes, Eukleides, Socratis, Plato, Pericles, Sofocles, Democritos, Aristotle and Alexander the Great. On the other hand, the Byzantine Empire was that rescued, developed and spread the Hellenic Civilisation to the other European and Asian Nations. # Greek philosophers and political leaders -- Cleisthenes and Pericles and their successors -- had great influence upon America's Founding Fathers in their creation of these United States. We, as a nation, owe a great debt to Greece. Greece is the birthplace of democracy, as we know it. Thomas Jefferson said, "To the ancient Greeks, we are all indebted for the light which led ourselves (American colonists) out of Gothic darkness." # Greece is the birthplace of democracy. The land that has enriched Western civilization with its history, philosophy and many other academic influences. Geometry, architecture, drama, philanthropy, and music have traveled globally from ancient Greece and have become the foundations of worldly theories, concepts and ideas. Furthermore, the Greek language has enriched other languages with many words. The unique and most delicious Greek cuisine, consists of many specialties, all cooked with care, mastery, love and excellence. The Greek cooking is distinguished with olive oil, herbs, and spices like basil, oregano, daphne, parsley; whilst the original dishes of mousaka, souvlaki and horiatiki salata (to mention a few) decorate each table deliciously. Lastly, let us not forget one of the most important international events which unite each nation in brotherhood, the Olympic Games, born in Greece, 776 B.C. in the spirit of world peace. Each traveler cannot resist the charm of this mystical land. # Greece is the birthplace of the Olympic Games, home of Ulysses, the Argonauts, and hallowed ground to the ancient Olympian gods. Today, a modern infrastructure, new airports, and world-connected communications provide the highest standards of service, both above and below water. A warm, dry climate supports thousands of uninhabited islands surrounded by the cleanest seas in all Europe. People are friendly, traditional, educated, and hospitable. Expect delicious local food, spirited entertainment, and unparalleled sightseeing. # Greece is the birthplace of democracy, theatre, philosophy and sport. # As ancient Greece is the birthplace of democracy, and, indeed the very underpinnings of the American way of life, so too was the American revolution the model for the modern Greek independence movement that began 168 years ago. In fact, Greeks used the United States Declaration of Independence as the archetype for their own declaration. Many American volunteers sailed to Greece to participate in Greece's war for independence. As Will Durant wrote: Greek civilization is alive * * * it moves in every breath of mind we breath * * * so much of it remains that none of us in one lifetime could absorb it all. Greece is the bright morning star of that Western civilization which is our nourishment and life. Indeed, Percy Bysshe Shelly wrote: We are all Greeks! Our laws, our literature, our religion, our art, have their roots in Greece. Herro hera elefteria! Long live freedom! # Greece is the birthplace of athletics # Greece is the birthplace of philosophy # 4,000 years of history and tradition is revealed in front of your eyes, from Mycenae to Olympia and Macedonia, from the incomparable sculptures of the Golden Age (Acropolis, Delphi) to the Byzantine cultural heritage (Mystras, Meteora). Greece is the birthplace of democracy. It is hard to imagine what civilised life would be like today without the influence of ancient Greece. # Greece is the birthplace of one of the world's oldest and most glorious civilizations # Ancient Greece is the birthplace of the earliest written western theories about physiology (500-300BC). Hippocrates (circa 460-377BC) makes no mention of the spirit. Plato (circa 428-347BC) proposed that mind and body were separate entities # Greece is the birthplace of the greatest philosophers (Socratis, Thales, Plato, Aristotle), the author of the first great European literary work, Homer, the great tragedy writers (Sophocles, Euripides, Aeschylus), the father of medicine Hippocrates and so many others! # As scholars have noted, Greece is the birthplace of the art of rhetoric, grammar, and logic. While "many other ancient civilizations produced literature, only the Greeks produced analytic, expository treatises that attempted to discover the actual bases of human communication" (Murphy & Katula, A Synoptic History of Classical Rhetoric, 1994, p. x). # ancient Greece is the birthplace Western philosophy & science, including astronomy. Yes, I know the Egyptians were astronomers too, but that was mainly in Ptolemeic Egypt, which for all intents and purposes was essentially Greece. Sorry to be so droll, but I answer these questions about ten times a week. # Greece is the birthplace of Western civilization and modern thought. Greece is the home of Aristotle, Plato, Homer, and of the Olympic Games # Greece is the birthplace of mathematics # GREECE IS THE BIRTHPLACE OF DEMOCRACY, THE CREATOR OF SCIENCE AND ART, THE HOME OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION AND THE BEST PART OF EUROPE. # ...... ..... .. GUYS COOL DOWN...HISTORY IS HISTORY AND THE TRUTH ALWAYS REMAIN TRUTH. NOBODY CAN CHANGE IT. READ OUR HISTORY, IT WILL MAKE YOU BETTER PERSONALITIES...http://www.ancientgreece.com/ WHY ANYBODY IN THE WORLD HAVE NOT RECOGNISED ''TURKISH REPUBLIC OF NOTHERN CYPRUS''????AHHHH??? ONLY TURKEY... WHAT ELSE CAN I SAY?? MY NATION IS GLORIOUS. WE LIVE IN THIS REGION FOR 8000 YEARS AND SO. IONIA (ASIA MINOR) HAD TO BE IN GREEK TERITORY. ALSO, CONSTANTINOUPOLI (INSTABUL), EASTERN THRACE, NORTH PART OF MACEDONIA AND NORTH PART OF IPIROUS. ALL THOSE REGIONS WAS GREEK FROM THE ANCIENT TIMES. SO!!!SAY THANKS GOD AND STOP TALKING. WE ARE IN EUROPEAN UNION 25 YEARS. YOU ARE ALL BEGING TO ENTER EU. WE HAVE SO MANY THINGS TO JEALOUS. COME DOWN....AND GIVE US THE RESPECT WE DESERVE. ESPECIALY FOR YOU TURKISH PEOPLE, THE EUROPEANS DOES NOT WANT YOU TO ENTER EU(WHY REALLY????LOL). WE TRY TO CONVISE THEM SO YOU CAN HAVE A CHANCE TO BE A NORMAL COUNTRY. WE TRY TO ENTER ALL OUR NEIGHBORHOODS IN EU,IN ORDER TO MAKE OUR REGION MORE ''EUROPE''. RESPECT AS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BESIDES YOU NEED US SO PROUD TO BE HELLENAS (GREEK)... **GEORGE FROM ATHENS**

86 Hellenas, your thoughts are good and I respect most of them. I Agree with you that History is History and therefore we should learn from mistakes we have done in the past. In order to make a better Europe we need to help each other and also respect each other views, habits, traditions, religions etc. This is the only way to survive and to live in Peace. I can tell you that the only one reason why we are not in the EU yet is because we are a Muslim nation with different views and traditions which reflects somehow a bad picture to the Christian countries within the EU especially when it comes to human rights. However, the day will come when we will join the EU sooner or later because Europe need us as well ie. in terms of geographical and economical aspects. Kind regards to you Hellenas, Iskender

87 to iskinder. I am happy that you agree with me and give respect. We want you in EU. You are neighborhoods and it will be good to both off us. We must forget the past, that is for sure. I just want to say to you that Croatia is a muslim country too, but there are no any reactions in their entrance. We have no problem with muslims. We respect your culture and habits. The same we want for us. last years some FYROMians drive us nuts...we need support to restore some truths..

88 Hellenas, thanks for your response and your opinion about Turkey's entry in the EU. I am always happy if I get to know intellectual people with a common political sense like yourself. Can I just say that Croatia is not a Muslim country. Croatia is 100% Christian and they will join the EU only if they will send their war criminals to Den Haag for what they have done against civilians during the Yugosllavian war. If Turkey were to join the EU we would be the only Nation in Europe ever who is 100% Muslim. I am very interested to know about what is going on with some FYROMians?? and what we can do to find a peaceful solution in order to resolve these issues once and for all? If you can, please give some background information about that as I would be very much interested to know the current status. Talk to you soo, Hellenas. Regards, ISKENDER

89 Dear Iskender Macedonia is a kingdom of ancient greece. Today, after so many years and too many wars, the region of Macedonia is the Nothern part of Greece between Epirus, Thrace and Thessaly. A little part of Northern ancient Macedonia seperated today between Yugoslavia and Bulgaria.Yugoslavia has a 15% bulgaria a 7% and greece has the rest in our territory. After the fall of Yugoslavia, the south region of Yugoslavia, that has in its territory the little nothern piece of Macedonia, wants to be named as the republic of ''Macedonia''. They claim that they are macedonians and that they own the name. Greece, reacted (offcourse) in this and all the situation went in the united nations. Provisionally UN named this country as FYROM (Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia) until a solution come out. All the world knows the truth. Macedonia is a greek province, Alexander the Great is our ancestor, it is a part of our great history, he spoke greek, he loved greece, and Alexander spread greek culture in all over Asia.He is greek with macedonia origin (as i have Athenian origin, my father Thessaly origin, my mother Pelloponisos origin etc..) and he was born in Pella, a city near Thesalonika. In Fyrom live Albanians, SLavs, Bulgarians and they speak a lunguage with Slavobulgarian roots, that they baptished it ''Macedonians''.The people have no history and roots, and they want to steal a part of our history. After 13 years of discussions in UN, Mathiew Nimits proposed a name for this country. He proposed ''Republika Makedonija-Skopje''and he said that macedonia is very connected with greek history and must be a difference with that. Skopje is their capital and that name is much better from simply ''Macedonia''.FYROMians look that they disagree with that. They want simply macedonia. They insist. Greece after those years of arguments says that this proposal is a good start for negotiation to end this disagree. If they insist in that, greece cannot accept it. All greeks are very upset, expesially the greeks in Northern Greece, in macedonia. This is the history in sort words. Those people are unacceptable. The fact is that in those years some countrys in the world regognised this country as ''Macedonia''(for personal reasons) (including Turkey of course) and FYROMians became intolerant and now they think that they have hopes. They dont know that greece will prevent their EU efforts with the name ''Macedonia''. It is an opportunity for them to end this argument. george the athenian.

90 Listen you stupids skopijans you wanna what? you wanna fuck with us? Cause they stupids in usa recongnised you as Macedonia just to stabilizate your unstable country you 'll tell us now that you are Macedonias? from where re? Looks into your country how many diferent polulations from diferent nations exist! No Macedonias are there.. And even if you want to call you as Macedonia you have to be thanksfull for this name cause is part of our history and this is inside us and you and noone will never steal it even if he gonna use it. Greek people are one of most peacfull and good-heart nation like of the few on this fucking age today. But you want to know soemthing if you still didnt realize? Dont try to fuck with us, greeks remains all but until one limit. Dont fucking jokes with our history you sily. Believe me that Greece want to help each and every country in Balkans and also FYROM to a European future that all together as in the West Europe will live together a better life. Greece until today rich that point , today Greece is inside everything and this shows our big different.BUT we want the same for our friends. IF you dont want to be, NEVER we dont fucking care get it? Just understand that you cant play as you like with history and especially with our Hellenic history. Am tired of speaking and even ungry just one more thing , many time i see a stupid thing writen from Skopjians that cause Macedonias attack to Athens that means that they were not Greeks . Hehe in all Greek history my friends all the Greek parties were fighting between them all the time, you dont know about the wars between Athens and Sparta? you dont know between Athens, Thebes.. READ AND LEARN history first!! Cause greeks between them were fighting that dosent means that were not greeks! Ofcourse they were despite that they were fighting Only Greeks can take parts in Olympic games and Macedonias as Athenians,Spartians,Thebeies,Eretries,etc etc they did no other has right to take place and that second improvment. Religion the same dialect Greek as so many other dialects! And so many thing more..IN ALL HISTORY Even if you go to today Afganistan there in the montains exist still an ancient race called "Callas" and they say that they are coming from "Great Alexander the king of Makedonians the GREEK" that also writen in a old statue-table nearby India "Here came the king of macedonias Alexander the Greek". Hehe what do you think, that Periclis par example cause he was the king of Athens he is not Greek but Athenian? hehe ..learn history is writen everywhere! Thats still exist, so you can still what you want but not our hearts not what we are and not our histiory! Macedonia was is & will be Greece. Thanks &*and sorry for my bad english.

91 Well done my friend Alexandros. All Greeks are united against anyone who try to insult our history. We are SO PROUD of our nation that we don't accept things like that. YOU ARE NOT MACEDONIAS! ACCEPT IT AT LAST. I know that you wish to be, but sorry you are not....find your roots in Slavs and Bulgaria. You are not greeks!You were in yugoSLAVIA..!..''SLAVIA''..! you speak a slavobulgarian dialect...YOU HAVE NO RELATION WITH MACEDONIA-MACEDONIANS-GREEKS. You are something different. in your country there are many nations. ALBANIANS-SLAVS-BULGARIAN. What the fuck relation have all of them with macedonia and greece??? It is clear.NOTHING Macedonians spoke and speak Greek Macedonians participated in Olympic Games, as the rest of Greeks. In Olympic Games was accepted only Greeks. Macedonians had the same religion with the rest greece.Olympian Gods. Alexander the great went to Persia for revenge because Persians had made disasters in Athens and other citys of greece. Alexander the great spreed the Greek culture all over Asia. Alexander's teacher was Aristotle Alexander favorite hero was Herculys and Achilees. Alexander the great WAS SPOKEN GREEK. As my friend alexandros told before, Greeks made many wars beetwen them. Macedonia vs Athens, Athens vs Sparta, Athens vs Thebes, and all of them in different periods had the upper hand in ancient Greece. BUT they were united in outside threats, as Persia. SO DONT FUCK WITH AS AND COME DOWN GEORGE THE ATHENIAN

92 ALSO..... EVEN the name of Alexander the Great is Greek: ALEXANDROS = ALEX + ANDRAS = neutralisation + man = the man who predominates the other men! HIS FATHER: PHILLIP = PHILOS + IPPOS = FRIEND + HORSE = THE MAN WHO LOVES THE HORSES. HIS MOTHER: OLYMPIADA = THE NAME OF OLYMPIC GAMES FROM OLYMPIA IN PELLOPONISOS. WHAT ELSE????????..... GEORGE THE ATHENIAN

93 when greeks with go with albanian women they get disease. Thats all off you albanians emigrate to greece. You are all over the world but still say your country is great.But no one lives there. 1 Greek better than 10 Albanians. In terms of anything. Lets not compare fighting moral in war. What has albania ever been up against to? Well greece has never been in conflict with a smaller nation than its itself. Second world war italians then germans,before turkey,before persia and better stop you dont have onne to come up with. What does that fighting always for freedom make us? Heroes. WHAT ARE YOU?YOU JUST LOOK FOR A BETTER LUCK. Learn from greek behaviour through history and some time you might be able to call yourself great. Not open the doors to germans and italians like pussies. Next time bendover as well and let them fuck you like great albanians you are going to resist with your ass.

94 Hahahaha... 1 Greek better than 10 Albanians??? You must be fucking jocking you GYPSY. Look in the mirror and ask yourself why the fuck do we greeks look so shitty and i bet with you the mirror will answer back and say, because god has also created the other side the shitty side of this world, namely the greeks. Try it, gypsy!!! You, greek shitbag, one day the time will come when we with out turkish brother and our brothers and sisters, the Americans will fuck you completely!! Your shitty population is declining gypsie and this day by day. You know that when i was at school in Germany I felt sorry for the greeks because all the time they used to even mention turkey in our history classes the turkish went and kicked their shitty faces with their boots during the lessons. You greeks are so shitty and so fucking scared that the whole world knows about that (Especially the GOOD TURKISH). Besides, why the fuck do you think that Alexander the Great was Greek. How the fuck do you know that??? You scumbag. Only because he knew maybe how to speak Greek or maybe because lived in Greece or Macedonia doesn't make him Greek, you gypsie son of a bitch!!! Everything what is in the greek books in terms of the greek warriors in the ancient greek time were never greeks but either Troyans or Dardanians/Illyrians. We are the true Illyrians of the Balkan that is why our language differs from the slavic ones.

95 The ancient Greek historian Diodorus wrote much of the history of Macedonia from the times of Philip II and Alexander the Great up to the last Macedonian king Perseus. In his writings, Diodorus is clear that the ancient Macedonians were a distinct nation, not related to any of the Balkan peoples (Greeks, Thracians, and Illyrians). The below 40 quotes from his books XVII, XVIII, XIX, XX, XXII, XXVIII, XXIX, XXXI, and XXXII are indeed an overwhelming proof of that: [1] For even Greeks – Thespians, Plataeans and Orchomenians, and some other hostile to the Thebans who had joined the king (of the Macedonians) in the campaign. 17.13.5. [2] For many days the king lay helpless under his treatment, and the Greeks who had been settled in Bactria and Sogdiana, who had long borne unhappily their sojourn among peoples of another race and now received word that the king has died of his wounds, revolted against the Macedonians. They formed a band of 3000 men and underwent great hardship on their homeward route. Later they were massacred by the Macedonians after Alexander’s death. 17.99.5-6. [3] The Macedonians and Alexander backed Coragus because he was one of them while the Greeks favored Dioxippus. 17.100.4. [4] Then the Macedonian (Coragus) poised his long lance and charged, but the Greek (Dioxippus), when he came within reach, struck the spear with his club and shuttered it. After these two defeats, Coragus was reduced to continuing the battle with sword, but as he reached for it, the other leaped upon him and seized his swordhand with his left, while with his right hand the Greek upset the Macedonian’s balance and made him lose his footing. 17.100.6-7 [5] He (Alexander the Great) was plainly disappointed at the defeat of the Macedonian. Dioxippus released his fallen opponent, and left the field winner of the resounding victory and bedecked with ribands by his compatriots, as having brought a common glory to all Greeks. 17.101.1-2. [6] From Europe, the Greek cities AND the Macedonians also sent embassies, as well as the Illyrians and most of those who dwell about the Adriatic Sea, the Thracian peoples and even those of their neighbors the Gauls, whose people became known then first in the Greek world. 17.113.2. [7] When Perdiccas heard of the revolt of the Greeks, he drew by lot from the Macedonians 3000 infantry and 800 horsemen. 18.7.3 [8] They (the Greeks) had more then 20000 foot soldiers and 3000 horse. 18.7.2. 3000 of these 23000 Greeks were led by a "traitor" who "left his allies without warning and withdrew to e certain hill, taking his 3000 men". 18.7.6. [9] When oaths to this effect had been sworn and the Greeks were interspersed among the Macedonians, Pithon was greatly pleased, seeing that the affair was progressing according to his intentions; but the Macedonians remembering the orders of Perdiccas and having no regard for the oaths that had been sworn, broke faith with the Greeks. Setting upon them unexpectedly and catching them off their ground, they shot them all down with javelins and seized their possessions as plunder. Pithon then, cheated of his hopes, came back with the Macedonians to Perdiccas. 18.7.8-9 [10] When Alexander died a short time thereafter and left no sons as successors to the kingdom, the Athenians ventured to assert their liberty (from Macedonia) and to claim the leadership of the Greeks. 18.9.1 [11] When the Aetolians listened to him gladly they gave him 7000 soldiers, he sent to the Locrians and the Phocians and the other neighboring peoples and urged them to assist their freedom and rid Greece of the Macedonian despotism. 18.9.5. [12] The decree of the Assembly of Athens: "people should assume responsibility for the common freedom of the Greeks and liberate the cities that were subject to (Macedonian) garrisons; that they should prepare 40 quadriremes and 200 triremes (ships); that all Athenians up to age of 40 should be enrolled; that three tribes should guard Attica, and that the other seven should be ready for campaign beyond the frontier; that envoys should be sent to visit the Greek cities and tell them that formerly the Athenian people, convinced that all Greece was the common fatherland of the Greeks, had fought by see against those (Macedonian) barbarians who had invaded Greece to enslave her, and that now too Athens believed it necessary to risk lives and money and ships in defense of the common safety of the Greeks." 18.10.1-3. [13] Of the rest of the Greeks, some were well disposed toward the Macedonians, others remained neutral. 18.11.1 [14] A few of the Illyrians and the Thracians joined the alliance (with the Greeks) because of their hatred of the Macedonians. 18.11.1-2 [15] As soon as, however, as he learned of the movement concerted against him by the Greeks, he left Sippas as general of Macedonia, giving him a significant army and bidding him enlist as many men as possible, while he himself, taking 13000 Macedonians and 600 horsemen, set out from Macedonia to Thessaly (into Greece). 18.12.2 [16] Now that this great force had been added to the Athenians, the Greeks, who far outnumbered the Macedonians, were successful. 18.12.4 [17] As the Macedonians defended themselves stoutly, many of the Greeks who pushed on rashly were killed. 18.12.1-2 [18] Antiphilus, the Greek commander, having defeated the Macedonians in a glorious battle played a waiting game, remaining in Thessaly and watching for the enemy to move. The affairs of the Greeks were thus in thriving condition, but since the Macedonians had command of the sea, the Athenians made ready other ships… 18.15.7-8. [19] Then after such a combat I have described, the battle was broken off, as the scales of victory swung in favour of the Macedonians. More then 500 of the Greeks were killed in the battle, and 130 of the Macedonians. 18.17.5 [20] The commandant of the garrison of that city, Archelaus, who was a Macedonian by RACE, welcomed Attalus and surrendered the city to him… 18.37.3-4. [21] Seleucus and Pithon again tried to persuade the Macedonians to remove Eumenes from his command and to cease preferring against their own interests a man who was a foreigner and who had killed very many Macedonians. 19.13.1 [22] Peucestes (Macedonian commander) had 10000 Persian archers and slingers, 3000 men of every origin equipped for service in the Macedonian array, 600 Greek and Thracian cavalry and more then 400 Persian horsemen. 19.14.5. [23] Although the risk involved in all these circumstances was clear, nonetheless she decided to remain there, hoping that many Greeks AND Macedonians would come to her aid by sea. 19.35.6. [24] Then, after making a truce with the other Boeotians and leaving Eupolemus as general for Greece, he went into Macedonia, for he was apprehensive of the enemy’s crossings. 19.77.5-6 [25] In this year Antigonus ordered his general Ptolemaeus into Greece to set the Greeks free… 19.77.2 [26] Ptolemaeus, the general of Antigonus, had been placed in charge of affairs thoughout Greece; 19.87.3 (not in Macedonia). [27] This was the situation in Asia and in Greece AND Macedonia. 19.105.4 [28] And first he planned to establish order in the affairs of Greece … and then go on against Macedonia itself if Cassander did not march against him. 20.102.1 [29] While these held office, Cassander, king of the Macedonians, on seeing that the power of the Greeks was increasing and that the whole war was directed against Macedonia, became much alarmed about the future. 20.106.1-2 [30] Demetrius was followed by 1500 horsemen, not less then 8000 Macedonian foot-soldiers, mercenaries to the number of 15000, 2500 from the cities throughout Greece. 20.110.4 [30] The utmost spirit or rivalry was not lacking on either side, for the Macedonians were bent on saving their ships, while the Siceliotes wished not only to be regarded as victors over the Carthaginians and the barbarians of Italy, but also to show themselves in the Greek arena as more then a match for the Macedonians, whose spears had subjected both Asia and Europe. 21.2.2 [31] Brennus, the king of the Gauls … invaded Macedonia and engaged in battle. Having in this conflict lost many man .. as lacking sufficient strength … when later he advanced into Greece and to the oracle of Delphi which he wished to plunder. 22.9.1-2 [33] A native of Terentum, Heracleides was a man of surprising wickedness, who had transformed Philip from a victorious king into a harsh and godless tyrant, and had thereby incurred the deep hatred of all Macedonians AND Greeks. 28.9.2 [34] Flamininus held that Philip (the Macedonian king) must completely evacuate Greece, which should thereafter be ungarrisoned and autonomous. 28.11.1 [35] To this Flamininus replied that there was no need of arbitration whom he ha wronged; furthermore he himself was under orders from the Senate to liberate Greece (from Macedonia). 28.11.3-4 [36] When the news of settlement reached him, Flamininus summoned the leading men of all Greece, and convoking an assembly repeated to them Rome’s good services to the Greeks. 28.13.2 (Macedonians excluded from the leading men of Greece) [37] In defense of the settlement made with Nabis he (Flamininus) pointed out that the Romans had done what was in their power, and that in accordance with the declared policy of the Roman people all the inhabitants of Greece were now free (of Macedonia), ungarrisoned, and most important of all, governed by their own laws. 28.13.3 [38] Philip threatens the Greek Thessalians: "They were not aware, he said, that the Macedonian sun had not yet altogether set." 29.16.1-2 [39] He said, namely, that after seeing the sun rise as he was about to begin transporting his army from Italy to Greece… five day later he arrived in Macedonia. 31-11.2-4 [40] Having as his accomplice a certain harpist named Nicolaus, a Macedonian by birth… 32.15.9 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

96 ''Greeks'' mentioned in ancient writings is ''Hellenes'' (like Hellas=Greece), greeks is the translation in english. There were one of the many tribes as were the Athenians etc which all at the end gathered unified under the name Hellenes which is Greeks in english. I could write forever analysing all kind of crap mentioned here but I dont have the time. Sooner or later the world as you view it will end. Pray to your gods while you still can. + PAS MH ELLHN BAPBAPOS +

97 to bary. nice try BUT you forget (the best part) that in Ancient Greece all the regions was seperated and intepented BUT they all spoke GREEK, they all believed in Zeus, they all participated in Olympic Games an athletic event only for Greeks.From magna grecia (south italy) up to Ionia (Asia Minor-turkey) and cuprys and from Macedonia up to Crete and Alexandreia (north Egypt)Taking phrases and details from a whole history does nt make sense. The history that you mentioned is about Macedonia and not for all Greece, so it is natural to mention Macedonia seperatelly. This history you are talking about FOCUS in Macedonia, as there is history that focus in Athens, in Sparta, in Thrace, in Thessaly, in Ionia, in Magna Grecia, in Pelloponisos, in Mykines, in Minoan etc etc.... ALL OF THEM WERE PARTS OF ANCIENT GREECE. ALL OF THEM WERE, ARE AND WILL BE GREEKS. NOONE CAN CHANGE IT NOW. A NATION IN ORDER TO BE A NATION MUST HAVE: 1/ THE SAME LANGUAGE 2/ THE SAME RELIGION 3/ COMMON HABITS AND TRADITIONS THIS IS A REALLY NATION, AND SO WAS ANCIENT GREECE: A NATION THAT LIVES UNTIL TODAY. IT IS HARD BUT: ''PAS MI ELLIN BARBAROS'' IF YOU WERE MACEDONIAN YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND THE LITTLE PHRASE BEFORE. ALEXANDER THE GREAT WAS ABLE TO UNDERSTAND THAT, AS ALL THE GREEKS OF COURSE. So my friend Bary, all the other are just efforts to deform the reality. Good effort but not enough to prove anything. Even the satanism can show arguments from Bible and make them seem different. BUT we all now that are false. Something like that are the arguments that you say to us. And please try to find answers to my points in that message and in my messages that i wrote before. ALEXANDER SAID IN THE BATTLE OF DARDANELIA TO HIS FIGHTERS: ''lets win, for the glory of GREECE!!!'' he was so right...THE GLORY OF GREECE. This glory we are trying to protect even today.He was fighting the barbarians to protect the culture of Greece. The Greek spirit and mind. The great civilization that gave birth to the most principalls values of mankind. GEORGE THE ATHENIAN

98 AND..even today in Greece we say our birthplaces. I am Athenian, my father is from Thesally, my mother is from Sparta, my grandfather is from Pergamon (Asia minor) my grandmother is from Crete, my oncle is Cypriot, my other grandfather Macedonian...etc etc..WE ALL ARE GREEKS, SPEAK GREEK, THINKING GREEK SO PROUD TO BE GREEKS GEORGE THE ATHENIAN

99 Don't talk bullshit greeks. You might tell all this you grandma' but no one else will take it seriously, i am telling you this, man cause you are talking only bullshit. Macedonia belongs to us and you will never take it from us as we have kicked your dirty asses always when you shitty greeks tried to take our homeland away from us. Piss off, greeks! Zoran

100 if you dare come to take it zoran (zoran!! even your name is barbarian. What the fuck relation has with Phillip and Alexandre??) ''MOLON LAVE'' WE ARE THE BEST IN THE WORST NEIGBORHOOD DREAM ON BARBARIANS democracy-art-sience-literature-sports-olympics-astronomy-mathematics-architecture-law-medicine-philosophy-drama-Tragedy-theatre....... Alexander the Great, Socratis, Pythagoras, Homer, Solon, Periklis, Thoukididis, Hrodotos, Esxilos, Aristotle, Sofoklis,....and SO many more....i need pages to finish. WE BROUGHT TO YOU THE LIGHT.FACE IT. THAT IS THE BIGGEST PAIN FOR YOU. TRUTH REMAINS TRUTH AND HISTORY REMAINS HISTORY, NOONE CAN CHANGE IT AND FOR SURE NOONE FYROMIAN (ALBANOBOULGAROSLAVIANS) CAN CHANGE IT. THATS MY ANSWER TO ALL OF YOU ANTHELLINES *GEORGE THE ATHENIAN*

101 This is a hilarious forum... 99% of people writing here seem to be retarded in some way or other, is that due to all your in_cestous behaviour in the Balkans? I have a great solution, why don't we drop A-bomba all over the Balkans!?... a great solution using your logic. We would get rid of all your petty problems... No dirty Albanians left to polute the south Balkans(and europe for that matter, as there seem to be an albanian on every street corner), fucking like rabbits having 50 kids in one family, and being the core distributer of heroin to the rest of Europe? Why we are at it we should bomb Greece as well, we wouldn't have to listen to gay greeks talk about ancient history when in the past hundred years the only thing they have achieved is to prostitute their islands to drunk Britts and Germans. Then we have the Croats and the Serbs... were to start, same people, same language but different religions... good reason to fight each other and kill each other? A-boms would do miracles here, we can help you there guys we can do the job for you and make a fantastic parking space of your contries as that would probably make more use of that waste of space that it is now. Then we have the turks... ohhh the turks, with their constan inferiority complex... ohh how they want to be europe and europeans, but hey guys guess what, 90% of your country is as much part of europe as say... Iraq, are we going to see Iraq in the the EU?... hmmm, don't think so why don't we A-bomb you and take care of your complex! Face up to your history and GET OVER IT! You just have to read the comments on this site to see why you belong in the stone age... This pathetic discussion ( if you can call this a discussion when the mental capacity is equal to a 5 year old) is primitive and sad ( although it gave me a few chuckles).

102 hey dudes... see the EUROMIL site ;-) lot of years the map say Skopje as Macedonia... after USA say Skopje Macedonia... then EUROMIL change the map to FYROM before some months ;-) hey dudes... i have lot to tell you ... for now i am busy... DON"T AFRAID... MAKEDONIA WAS GREEK MAKEDONIA IS GREEK CUZ SIMPLE MATHEMATICS>>> MAKEDONIA WILL BE FOREVER GREEK! IF YOU DOUBT... check web,,, GreekHackers Hack 500 sites around per 4 days with the message "MAKEDONIA IS ONE AND IS GREEK, KNOW THAT SKOPJE IS REPUBLIC OF VARDASKA! HELLENIC HISTORY." well i will copy paste later lot of proof. WE GOT all proofs that macedonia is greek and u NONE... hey what the names of ur cities and vilages into SKOPJE ? GREEK NAMES.! oh yes... you slavic dude... HELLAS HELLAS... the only country in the world that call as HELLADA... is the SKOPJE... WHY??????? YES we are christians orthodox! if u know history, then u will know that after a war Russians come to greeks and pray as to make them all ORTHODOX! i think skopje u blow... and we can fire all skopje into 1 day. in 1910 the war... i SEE GREEKS - TURKS - SERBIANS - BULGARIANS to war for MAKEDONIA! but where are you bastard skopje? till 10 years before your name is VARDASKA! then ur first president say clearly! SKOPJE is NOT MAKEDONIANS... SKOPJE IS JUST SLAVIC comming to this area at 5th century (by the way alexander die at 323 ;-) anyway... where are u in 1910? GREEKS ARE THERE AND FIGHT! WE WIN and we WAR for another one GREEK name ... the MAKEDONIAN NAME! look Cyprus dude :-D Cyprus is a greek island! :-D ask the cypriot. them flag is the greek.look Thrace... Kostantinouple! Smurni! Trapezounta... hey dude! HELLAS HELLAS ;-) ola einai danika...kai me tous kairous kai ta xronia kai pali dika mas tha einai! before we are under turks for 400 years but we take back again...same with makedonia...we got the power! we are the only nation that war always... look at 2nd world war! look persians! look turks... look italians! ;-) GREECE HELLAS! THESSALONIKI IS THE CAPITAL OF MAKEDONIA REGION OF GREECE.-

103 WHY DO YOU FUCKING GREEKS TALK JUST BULLSHIT IN THIS FORUM??? WHY DO YOU HAVE TO CHALLENGE ALWAYS THE LITTLE ONE? DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT TURKEY WILL ONLY WATCH IF YOU WOULD ATTACK MACEDONIA OR SKOPJE OR ALBANIA OR EVEN BOSNIA??? I TELL YOU WHAT IF IT WOULD BE UP TO US, WE WOULD FUCKING TAKE OVER GREECE AND FUCKING SERBIA WITHIN ONLY 72 HOURS. BUT, IT IS OUR FRIENDS THE AMERICANS WHO WE HAVE TO LISTEN TO AND PRAY GOD THAT YOU WILL NOT BE ALIVE WHEN WE PAY YOU A "BLITZKRIEG" VISIT BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANNA KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO YOU THEN. UNFORTUNATELY, WE KILLED ONLY 4,8500,000 GREEKS DURING ALL THE WARS THAT WE HAD SO FAR, SO IT SEEMS THAT REST NEED TO BE FINISHED VERY SOON. THE AMERICANS MAY SHOW MERCY, BUT WE DON'T!!! DON'T EVER THINK THAT YOU CAN MESS WITH US TURKISH YOU ARE OUR SLAVE EVEN TODAY. YOU WERE OUR SLAVE FOR MORE THAN 400 YEARS!!!! WE KILLED YOU, WE FUCKED YOU, WE SLAUGHTERED YOU, WE RAPED YOU AND STILL YOU ARE SMALL TO US, SO SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU USELESS NATION!!!!!!!! ....AND LEAVE THE OTHERS ALONE!!

104 To Viking, Who the fuck do you think you are to talk like an arrogant piece of shit? Do you really think you are much better than most of us in this forum to come up with this fucking stupid idea to nuke all us out!!! You sounds like one of these bloody Neo-Nazis who normally don't deserve to exist nowdays. You are a RACIST MOTHERFUCKER!!! We don't need people like you to judge others based on their religion, race, history, habits whatsoever. Although, we still find it difficult to leave in Peace with each other in the Balkans I strongly believe that in future all these Nations (Serbs, Croats, Greeks, Albanians, Macedonians, Bulgarians, Turks etc..) will be much closer integrated to each other so that all this hatress and prejudice against each other will be vanished once and for all because at the end of the we all are humans and humans learn through their histories and experiences to make a better life for tomorrow. This time will come but until then lots of barriers need to be abolished. A Proud Albanian from Illinois, USA USA FOREVER!!!

105 dear Kastrioti! I would suggest you read my comment once more before you open your gob in ignorance... most people on this forum refer to each other as "muthafuckaz" and other "cool" words, all they want to do is to invade each others contries and kill each other... greeks vs macedonians/albanians, macedonians vs albanians, serbs vs croats/albanians/bosnians/turks, turks vs greeks/serbs/bulgarians!! Balkan people are the most intolernat and racist on earth... Is this what you called civilized!? If this is civilized I don't want to know what uncivilized means in your contries... Also I noticed that you lack the ability to notice irony and sarcasm, which my hole text is made up of as I said before it reflects the retoric of the mentally declined people on this forum, so I just put myself on the same low level, get it now? So before you start throwing shit like neo-nazi and racist, see what irony and sarcasm means in a dictionary and ask your self what future the Balkans have when you can't come to terms with your history. Because if people in general think like the people on this forum about each other on the Balkans there isn't much of a future, or do you disagree. Ciao

106 Re malakes! Makedonia is greek, and will always remain greek! Stop stealing our history you lowsy, ugly cowards with big noses! PS. FREE CYPRUS FROM THE TURKS! //////FROM FC CREW (free cyprus crew) We are not kidding you lousy bastards!! History can't be re-written like a cd! Am I right, or am I righ!? Mia zwh elliniki!!!

107 Dear Viking, you seem to me to be a pathetic person if you really think that those sort of personalities in this Forum rule our countries in the Balkans or Eastern Europe. 97% of all those people in this Forum are unfortunately illiterates or just are about to leave after they are done with their secondary school and don't want to go any further. So, please don't think that all Balkanis are like those pasting their shitty texts in this forum. I am sure other countries have the same sort of psychos (look at Germans with their Neo-Nazis, English with their Hooligans etc.) The main problem with the most of the Eastern Europeans is that they are still behind (some 50-60 years)other industrialized countries and so they have to pick up with them especially when it comes to a higher education level. They still live with their old traditions and are to narrow to loose their conservative way of thinking in different aspects (ie. Politics, global view, history, religion, race etc. etc.). Also, there is a huge difference between being a blatherskite or an evil. Fortunately, those people here are all blatherskites. Normally, the most friendliest people in whole europe you will find are in the balkans, wherever you go (Greece, Turkey, Macedonia, Albania, Hungary, Yugosllavia etc.). This is a fact!! That is why people like you (German, Swedish, Norway, Danish etc.) go on holidays to Croatia, Greece etc. So, whatever bad you say and think in general about us Eastern Europeans is completely wrong and completely missunderstood. There are always good and bad people in each country in this planet so don't be like the germans who put one nation in a pot only because they have had a bad experience with someone before. That makes you then very naiv and stupid if you do think like that. Victory to All Good People in this Planet. God Bless America!!! Kastrioti

108 Cuz u talk... i hack already under 400 sites with: .al .gov.al .mk .gov.mk .it .tr the fist two sites i hack is the sites: http://ambasadat.gov.al/index.html http://www.ultrasuoni1.it/ MACEDONIA-HPEIROS-CYPRUS-COSTANTINPLE-SMURNH was...is....and will be forever GREEK! HELLAS HELLAS!!!! ----------------------------------- greekhackers.org ellhack.com uigr.com codelux.gr cosmmin@gmail.com -----------------------------------

109 NEWS NEWS NEWS NEWS NEWS NEWS NEWS NEWS NEWS NEWS - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - EUROMIL till last month call Skopje as Macedonia, After USA say Skopje as Macedonia, before 2 months, EUROMIL change the name on map and post FYROM. USA say that they say SKopje as Macedonia is WRONG for now... European Union say NO to Skopje to use the "Republic Of Macedonia". The ancient name of area around skopje is Paionia and the new is VARDASKA... so i should we call them Republic Of Vardaska! Alexander the Great die at 323 but Slavs come balkans (Skopje people) at 5th century. They have NO connection with Alexander the Great. First Skopje president say that they are slavs just and they have no contact with alexander the great, macedonia and greeks. Skopje call Thessaloniki Solum, and they say that is the original name. But how that come when Thessaloniki is more old name (the half sister of Alexander) who is set by start? and the Skopje come in balkans at 5th century? What about Greek name cities into Skopje? You know that into skopje there are lot of Greek names Cities ;-) Macedonians talk Greek cuz simple they are greeks. Is like... A german from Kelts and a german from Vavarys... they both germans just from different areas. Like greece... Macedonian Greeks (a greek from macedonia area) Attica Greeks (a greek from attica area) Skopje say that Greeks make fake hsitorical things... How that come... when the discover of all that is by foregn ancients? like british, german, french etc. What about the ancient discovers into skopje into asia and arabia... that proof macedonians are greeks who talk greeks. Alexander the Great Kill Persians for the name of Greece! Lot of people think why Alexander fight greeks too... well did you know pelloponisean war? between greeks? Spartans and Atheneans? yes they both greeks... in ancient greece all is like city - countries. always greeks between have wars. But they fight together the foreign army... like persians. That proof it all. All greeks and onbly greeks can go to Olympic games ;-) there are lot of macedonians who go there...that means are greeks. ps. i have lot lot to say ;-) MACEDONIA IS GREEK. AND HISTORY TELL IT.

110 Is it me, or does every civilized country in the world (Greece, first and for most, America, France, England, Germany, etc) have a serious problem with poor, dirty, disgusting, stupid immigrants that flood their nation with filth? Whether its latin americans in America, the dredges of the Balkans in Greece, the muslims in France and England, or the Turks in Germany...they pollute any pure soil they touch, they bring the meaning of stupidity to a new low, and carry on like a bunch of inbred animals with no formal house-training. Is it any surprise no one wants you in their country? If you have such bride in your history and nation ::scoff:: then go back to your busted countries and fix THEM up rather than bring the rest of civilization down to your level. You are the uninvited house guests that can't take a hint. So we'll make it nice and clear...GET OUT! Of course, you may have to reads this a few more times before that inbred brain of yours can understand this message. So let me simplify this a bit: GET OUT, GET OUT, GET OUT. Rinse and repeat. Take two time daily before food. EI ELLADA POTE THEN PETHENI! P.S. To all my greek brothers out there, we are continuing the fight in America and cannot wait until our grand reunion with the motherland and we can all expel the foreign invaders from our sacred soil.

111 hey patriot what do you mean by saying " we are continuing the fight in America..." Are you completely fucked up??? I also am a proud american who does not allow any foreigners to make an assault upon our citizens, governments etc. So, in other words you greeks are seriously taking a dangerous step ahead if you think like a Nazi and not like a real Patriot. Besides, we americans do not support your politics anyway because we see things differently and we have never seen greeks as our real allies. I hope you understand why....!! Soultz

112 Proud American... Greeks control all parts of USA. Look at New York President ;-) he is Greek. YES YES, the New York President is GREEK. Also...what is american? hehe... anyone can be american...so is other the america other the usa and other the americans... all that are different topics dude. ALL GREEKS PLS CHECK BACK SOON ON: www.uigr.com and www.i-macedonia.com THX! HELLAS FOREVER REEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!

113 Nice...another dispute among the millions i have seen ... For FYROM guys... History lesson at http://www.macedonia.com/english/ Ancient findings can prove much more than your fake claimings... As for Albanians... a mixed race , who claim to be from the famous ancient race of Illyrians ... no connection at all really as their race seased to exist right after the end of Roman Empire... History Lesson...No2 http://www.frosina.org/culturehistory/reviews.asp?id=122 Also for any person who thinks Greece or better named Hellas as "the ones from the rock of light"...well we have a saying here for all those who think they can prevail on our race...ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ... Most of the world tribes tried us, and ALL OF THEM (no exception) got tjei faces into dirt... from Romans (who were "Dazzled" by the Hellenic culture) , Turkish who even they were arround 400 years occupying they still were got rid of , to Mussolini Italians , Nazis.... what makes you think that YOU will manage better... so as i said...ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ... Gandalf

114 nice Hassan...really nice... Your vanity was one of the main reasons you need OUR approval in order to join E.U.... And it is sad that fanatics like you or your famous "wolves" are the ones responsible , for the backstep of your country... As for the 400 years... i think that the Hellenic Flag which is waving , right in front of your eyes at the eastern borders of Evros river , is all the answer you need... Btw... have you ever finished high school?... or is this the level of education you are receiving ...? BTW , capital writting is always something to look uppon as something ugly... Btw .. Turks?... If you really know your history , seltzuks were an "expelled tribe" by the Moggolians , who were outcasted from Asia... So do not speak of me about origin.. or even about culture... Thank God (or Allah if you wish) that there are people with some intelligence in your country and can help you , not fall into the "endless loop" of hate , which seems that you are.... Gandalf

115 The problem with the past is that we waste the present. Living in the word of the God and accepting and knowing the mistakes of the past can help the future in South-eastern Europe. By language the race is as below albanian - illirian 1, greek- illirian 2. this is for the old history in the midle term to these tow groups were aded, slavs, turks, and lately in the era of globalization english. Long live to engels in earth, out the evil.

116 To all anthellines of this forum... Our people, Greeks, is a nation with a glory ancient history...So, this people is VERY PROUD about his past. We breath, we dream, we live, we think, we work, with this. It is our fortune. We will never stop to talk about this. Like it or not, THATS IT. Try to get familiar with this. Facing the Greek history is like facing with the roots of western culture. Who that means your culture as it is today. All of our values are accepted today by all mankind. Democracy, philosophy, art, drama, medicine, athletism, olympics, poetry, sience, astronomy, architecture...etc.. Greeks as Homer, Aisxylous, Aristotle, Pythagoras, Periklis, Solon, Alexander the Great, Hippokratis, Pindaros, Hisiodos...and many many more had marked the history of all the mankind. This is accepted by all historians and scientists of the world. Why some of you people, dont have the bravery to accept the truth?? I am sure that even you, inside of you, know the truth. It is hard to accept it loud. The braves can do it. So try to be brave. Also, we respect all other cultures and nations and we want the same about us. We can not accept the deformation of history. Not a simply history like the others. A GREAT HISTORY. It is our obligation to protect it. *George the Athenian*

117 Hassan... Holding an MBA degree does not show on the languange you use, and that is why my reaction was that.. If you were not bussy in swearing me and just take a glance at those links (which on of them is in a London uni) you would see that my respond was based on logical arguments and not on swearings as yours was. One thing to remember though. Hellas and not Greece (which is a term brought up by you at first) is a country that has survived 5000 years of history and is still here. Your enterprise , (which i hope will profit enough)is aparted form several people , under different citizenships , right?... do you also behave in that way if someone is opposing you , even if he is negative in his ways (which i believe i was not)? Holding a degree does not , immediatelly make you civillised ... and that is a global truth not mine... You were help up by a phrase of mine which although was described a bit rough , it was the truth... Several thousands of people in Pelloponisos managed to cast away the occupying forces of an empire at that time.. Like it or not , it is the truth... Swearing wont get you anywhere, .. in fact if you could be kind enough to bring some arguments to support your words and not just curses , mayb ei would pay up more attention... As for the people of several nationalities which have , been in my country , it si true that there are people who behave like "racists".. but rotten apples exist in both sides of the story... Hellas is a country which is the "terminal" for many refugees from all over the eastern parts of the world... even from your own country.. Kurds , Iranians , Iraqis and many others who were driven away from their own country regimes (similar to the one Turkey had near to todays time.. i believe you are familiar with the term of "white cells")... We were open to ALL OF THEM, comparing to Italy or the rest of E.U. where you support... Germany and UK have published a law which is narrowing down all those visitors which is still not valid in our country... Also did you know that in order for you to join E.U. you were obliged to sign a treaty to limit the percentage of Turkish people travelling arround E.U for permanent staying in other countries?... Simple Turkish people and simple Hellines ( i realy do not like the term Greek so bare with me) do not have anything to separate trully... I have more friends than you can ever imagine from yoru parts and even travelled to many parts of your country.. Really nothing against them... History as the guy before me (Albanian soul) said, is to learn from mistakes and not to repeat them.. BTW ..Albanian soul... my regards for your comment... Also if you really want to know the truth about what is happening here, you will better visit us , with no prejudice and find out things on your own... Media tend to exagurate on things.... Yours and mine... but i think you know this... People in Balkans were always manipulated from the beggining of history as they are residents of a "Rich" area in many minerals and they are apart of a "node" that is connecting M.East-Asia-Europe-Africa ...A very significant part of teh world for anyone... History lesson for both of us here... remember the shift of the allies during the period of 1920s?... who and why they were supporting of , at that time?... I will help you a bit... take a look at your oil pipe at that time at your southern borders. I really have nothing against to you , personally.... i was just irritated by your curses and the lack of logical arguments... I am no fanatic and the sad part is that instead of having this post as a place to talk calmly , it is true that we fight with no real result... If you ever come to our country , i will be more than happy to show you arround... And for the record ... since you stated your proffesion, i will just pay you back with min e, in respect to your answer. I work as a professional Security Analyst in Electronical systems and i have pretty much worked with almost all nationalities of the world.. I am not arrogant , i am not pissing on anybody , but it is true that whoever is trying to take a part of my country with sneaky moves or even with direct approach he will find me infront of him.. and i believe the same thing will occur if that is the case for your country... Gandalf

118 Big nose hassan. Go home you losy coward...go home to MONKEYLAND! You turkish (I think you are turkish becouse you sound like a monkey!) bitch! We say; Makedonia, Constantinople, Cprus is Greek and wil allways emain Greek! Mpravo Thessaloniki Voice pes to! PS. Turks are bad for health! ///FC Crew - Free Cyprus! Makedonia is greek! OPA! It's better being greek than beeing turk! FREE CYPRUS!! And MAKEDONIA! See you lousy cowards with big noses at the Denmark - Greece game! - If you come, that means! FREE CYPRUS!!

119 PS2. We are not racists! We love every person on earth EXCEPT the ones that don't like greece or the greek people! BUT fact is fact - History can't be rewritten...what happended has happended...you can NOT go back in time and change history. SO with that in mind these facts are true: Makedonia and Cyprus IS greek! History can not be shared like a cookie! ////////FC Crew 2005 FREE CYPRUS

120 Free Cyprus from the lousy hairy ugly big-nosed cowards also known as the TURKS! ALSO, to you other idiots: Makedonia IS greek! IT ISSSS GREEEEKK!!!! alright? no problem, yes? There you go! We are DEADLY serious about this! FREE CYPRUS, MAKEDONIA IS GREEK! /////FC CREW

121 my friends Kostas and Alekos It is not necessary to talk like that and you dont have to talk like that. It is not proper for us the Greeks. It is not fair to blaim a hole nation for the acts of the goverments and the army. I know that the most Turkish people are friendly and peacefull. And for sure the people of Turkey is misunderstood. The goverments and the army of Turkey have their benefits to act like that. It is well known that the army in Turkey plays a principall role. Of course Macedonia is Greek, and for sure Cuprys is a victim of Turkish acts. But the people of Greece and Turkey must stay friends, and not to talk bad about each other. We have so many facts and truths with us, so we must not loose our temper. I have attached before some things that prove the truth. So, we have to be calm and focus in our target. THE TRUTH. We are the peacefull power of Balkans and we must remain the same. We must make our neighboorhods peacefull countrys so we can make Balkans a peacefull region as the rest of western europe. We have the right we us. And for sure we will not let anybody steal our history. Friendly regards to all Balkans and especially to Greeks, my country. *George the Athenian*

122 MACEDONIA IS GREEK! when we say that...we not mean that we want the land of skopje or VARDASKA. we mean about the name. Macedonia is a greek name. Macedonia parts is between greece,vardaska(skopje) and bulgaria. Only greeks can use the name of Macedonia. NO ONE else. greece not want the land of skopje cuz if greeks have that problem believe that will gone a big war...not only for that land. if greece make a war in balkan be sure that will be a balkan whole war. whatever by our history we area civilization nation. so lets look the map: http://makedonia.cc.ece.ntua.gr/English/PageData/the_issue.htm the blue line around is the area of macedonia by all historicals..facts and ancinet documents. If skopje is macedonia...why they not talk greek? or why in 1992 start that problem? why them president say that they are slavs? :-p if skopje is macedonia then today we not talk about the name. greece use that name from ancient years. Have you see in any other country problem with the name? NO! only skopje like to STOLE history without proofs. GREECE have proofs about that macedonia is greek. example: in USA we have 51 states who make the USA. someone who in from California can say that is American(USA) from California. etc... like that what is the greek macedonian. macedonia is a region in greece. the 24% people in greece are macedonians who leave in greece talk greek call them selfs greeks and greek-macedonians and they say that in skopje are slavs. MACEDONIA IS ONE AND IS GREEK!

123 Thessaloniki voice, thats right! very good approach... I wonder when they will be able to understand us at last!!! We dont want to occupie them (skopians), we just dont want to use a name that belong to us! I know that our history is glorious and many want to share a little bit of its glory, BUT that's false. for example: see the political map of france in the site http://www.map-of-france.co.uk/ What would happen if near by the region No9 with name Alsace, out of the borders of France, was born a country that wanted to be named Republic of Alsace. ??? I think that France would be very upset. *George the Athenian*

124 Re malaka, dusan; FTUSAN! You are wrong you lousy big hairy and craaazy bignosed coward! We don't want your 3rd world country....bitch

125 DID THE ANCIENT MAKEDONIANS SPEAK SLAVIAN?! NOO!! FC Crew2005

126 DID THE ANCIENT MAKEDONIANS SPEAK SLAVISH?!?! NOO!! FC Crew2005

127 Dusan, words-words-words but not any facts... read above and try to answer with facts. We have so many facts that you can not imagine. READ SOME HISTORY.... what the fuck! is it neseserary to have all of those bad neigborhoods??? From the north to the east. From the bad to worst. why???...!

128 ...and what the fuck relation has your name Dusan or Zoran or whatever, with Alexander, Phillip, Olympiada, Voukefalas? Greek names, Greek words, Greek language! I can answer to you, nothing for sure. *the Athenian*

129 EVERYBODY HATES THE GREEKS. I WAS WATCHING THE OTHER NIGHT AMERICAN IDOL AND CONSTANTINE MAROULIS WAS THROWN OUT FROM THE STAGE LIKE A USELESS IDIOT. THIS REALLY DOES SHOW HOW HATRED THE GREEKS ARE EVEN IN UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. NO ONE LIKES YOU SHITTY GAY NATION, MAN!!! A GREEK LIFE DOESN'T MEAN NOTHING NOWADAYS AND YOUR HISTORY YOU CAN TAKE IT IN YOUR SHITTY GRAVES, BASTARDS!!! MIHAJLOVIC (SKOPJE)

130 it is useless to talk with a person of this level. I refer you to my answers above. ..so proud to be Greek, *the Athenian*

131 I am really getting bored of answering neive answers which are only full of curses and swearings , instead of logical arguments that can support their claimigs. Intelligent and educated people who are able to read history can draw their own conclusions... For the rest who are satisfying themselves with swearings and cursings... one phrase for them... "We can not beat idiots... they can not be defeated..." My regards to all intelligent people here. After all philosophy was born in Hellas... Gandalf

132 yes Gandalf, thats right philosophy, and so many other things were born here, in Greece (or Hellas). It will be better for all of you, to try to explore the Greek history, instead of trying to be against us. It will be good for you. Great Greeks have said many truths from ancient times. A lot of western values were born here. *the Athenian*

133 Dusan-FTUSAN; You use big words, mister smallcock...meet me and i'll show you who is lousy...you skopjans are all the same; JEALOUS OF THE GREEKS! FC Crew is coming!

134 Realy intresting discussion.just what is this magnificent discussion related with the poor macedonian man murdered? what a time waste I did for reading this stupid thing.

135 As i read this page i see only the skopje people (slavics or VARDASKA REPUBLIC people) just only the talk like "fuck" or "bastard" or "hate"... etc. and only from that talk can you understand... annoying people who have no proofs and they talk air. i HAVE proofs and i SHOW! where are yours slavic proofs? :-p anyway it doesn't matter what you say... cuz the real is one, that macedonia is one and is hellenic. i remind again that the only nation in the world that call us HELLADA is the Skopje. why??????? everyone who can understand, understand :-p NOTES: Yunan= Ionas ... when iones go to asia they have first touch with arabs. arabs can't spell perfect Ionas then they say Yunas. thats how come. what Ionas is? the hellenic nation have 4 ways of people at ancient: Dwrieis,Aioleis,MAkedones and Iones. Greek= Greacus= Greek Warrior in war fight. Romans, Italians know hellines as Greeks by write of greek philosopher who write greeks into wars as greacus. About "Macedonci"= means the macedonia way AND not macedonia as skopje think :-p if you read ancint papers you will understand. like Atticanci is the Macedonci come too by greeks. I have so many things to say. :-) Macedonia is one and is Hellenic... The best example is the CYPRUS. YES YES... anyone remember the "Kupros Ellas Enwsis"? i remember perfectly. and i can say that cyprus is not a country, cyprus is another island of greece, the greatest land of greece. how become a country? cyprus become a country to stop the war and don't make problems. Within that years the Kupriaki Lira is the most top money in the world. Also now with cyprus we have 2 members into EU. :-) If you ask cypriots what are you... im sure they will tell you GREEKS proudly as real. example: cyprus is country right? but what cypriot are? cypriots are GREEKS cypriots. that not means they half greeks example: greek macedonian (greek who stay and is from macedonia) greek cypriot (greek who stay and is from cyprus) greek athenian (greek who stay and is from Athens) greek pontios (greek who stay and is from ponto) HELLAS FOREVER special: Macedonia Cyprus Hpeiros Costantinople Pontos M.Asia are Hellenics :-)

136 If you consider Macedonians as Greeks just because they lived under Greek rule for some time and spoke the same language (because of the barbarian Greek rulership forcing them to)you can certainly consider Greeks as Turks since they lived under Turkish rule for centuries, saving one difference that Turks (unfortunately) give them freedom to let their language, religion and culture to prolong. _________________________________________][-][_________

137 You not understand. Skopje people who is as well SLAVIC they live under Yugoslavia. cuz they are part of slavs who talk slav language. MACEDONIANS are HELLENICs who talk GREEK and live in Greece. Into greece there are 3 millions Macedonia people who call them selfs Greeks and they DON'T Accept Vardaska (Vardaska = Fyrom). So Macedonians they live to them land...that land they want. Slavics are out of Macedonia region and they have no access to name of Macedonia... Just they only want to stole history cuz they are a nation that NOT like to accept them slavic history and they want to stole. Also barbarians are the slavic as world history... Greeks Never attack to Another nation. ;-) A question for you... Fyrom say that they are macedons... well the question is..: How they can be macedons when the have come at balkan at 5th century when Alexander The Great have die about 323? and how come as Slavs Fyroms say that Thessaloniki name is Solum? how come the Solum name? and how they can say that name when at history found always found only the name Thessaloniki also check the Letters of Apostole Pavlos (Paull) who he write to THESSALONIKI. and how fyroms try to say Solum when Thessaloniki is the start name of this city who taken the name by Alexander half sister name? And how they can talk fyroms about them macedonian language...when always we found macedonia documments with GREEK language... and how come when Fyromians language is already SLAVIC ? ... i have a lot... for... First answer to this one question ;-) Greeks NOT want the land of Skopje cuz Macedonia is till the place Monastiri. So Skopje - Fyrom or better Vardaska is NOT Macedonia. Just we NOT allow a foreign barbarian nation to stole a greek name like Macedonia who have big history and is a part of greece. Also the first President of Skopje - Fyrom - Vardaska said at 1992 that: "We are slavic who we come in balkan at 5 century and we have NO contact with Alexander The Great and Macedonians. We are Slavic nation." That is what said the first Skopje President at 1992. Also Greeks and Greece use as well the name of Macedonia and ONLY Greece use it. Till 1992 Fyrom name is VARDASKA or better REPUBLIC OF VARDASKA. Look History museum of Yugoslavia the maps. Why Skopje is the only country that call Greece as HELLADA? and how come Macedonia be Fyrom name... lets explain... the end -ia example: In English - In Greek (Hellenic) ------------------------------------ France Yallia Germany Germania England Agglia Turkey Turkia Macedonia Makedonia ------------------------------------ We call most of countries and places with "-ia" About Macedonia - Makedonia In ancient Documment find as "Makedonia" lets explain: In Greek language we not have "C" but is like "K". Just the translate of Makedonia in english is Macedonia. Also Skopje say that there are 2 histories of Macedonia. The one is the Skopje macedonia history. And the second history is that one Macedonia global history for macedonia and greece. How come 2 histories??? Also if real the name Macedonia is from Skopje and not Greek... how come that? and how come Greece have problem with that name? We wake up a day here in Greece and we say oh today we will remember another name to make a scene? But sure... Greeks always use that name and the people... the real one macedons into greece. You look... Skopje just in real world wake up a monring at 1992 and they say...oh we make country.... we have not name not history not civilization... what we can do for? lets look the map and wow! is that shine country next THE GREECE! Lets stole them names and history! Thats how come all. But they not think something... that thet not have proofs for it! but whos will search? lol. Thats how come that they are not Macedonians... cuz they are stupid and they can't think simple things like that. But what they answer that they have not proofs cuz they are macedons? Skopje say that the Greek Historicals who find the ancient things they destroy it and change it... but look how come they stupid! The find of ancient documents is by british, french, german historicals who search for etc. And is is ok that... ok for the land of Greece... What about the Ancient documents into Asia and Skopje? and what about the Greek names into land of Skopje country who they have cities with greek names? Greeks change it too? So Skopje they have no proof for it. By last all European Mambers NOT accept Fyrom to use that name as USA take back the name that try give to Skopje. Also EURO-MIL and members call Skopje as FYROM. :-) Thanks who you read my super interesting file. Macedonia is one and is Greek (Hellenic).

138 To "Thessaloniki Voice!" and all other ignorant ones: First of all I urge you study some history; you don't have to go far back for examples of GREEKS ATTACKING OTHER NATIONS; remember how hellenic dreams of invasion were repelled back from Turkish homeland of Anatolia in 1922, no more words about it. For almost a millenium Karadeniz (Former Pontus), Anatolia (so-called-by-you M. Asia) and for more than half-a-millenium İstanbul (Former Roman City of Constantinople) are NOT hellenic at all, you're always welcome to see it for your own eyes. And one more thing about the other so called "hellenic" place: Cyprus; never in any phase of the world's history Cyprus has been a Greek island; NEVER (except for the southern half of it being for the last 30 years). It has been an Egyptian island, a Roman island, a Venetian island, it has been an Ottoman island, has been a British island bu NEVER under the rule of any Greek civilization. These eventually show that Greek people's historical ignorace combined with being the most spoiled country in the world they tend to take historical places and historical names into monopoly. I repeat it once more, if the Ottoman Empire forced Greeks to talk Turkish (as ancient greeks forced all people under their rule), Greeks can be ignored the same way as they ignore Macedonians right now. You can't hold the name of a geography just because you hold a certain percentage of it. CONCLUSION: No matter how long ago, and how many Greeks lived in a location Greeks tend to call that location hellenic for eternity... Wake up! Once Macedonians and Greeks may be the same, but now they are NOT and all you Greeks should respect that.

139 as i said ...you can talk to people with wide perception and not narrow-minded ones... to 1453 Seltzuks or today called Turks , were a tribe which was expelled by the rest of the Moggolian tribes , arround 850 a.D They were not inhabbitants of this part of the Mediterenean.. So do not speak about invasions.. even your nick is "crying out" ... Today called Istanbull , is full of Greek monuments (Temple of Ag.Sofia), Effesos, etc.. Pontos or M.Asia...was an area which was occupied by Ioneis at first and then occupied by Persians. Then Byzantium followed , which was a mix of Greek and Roman Culture at first and then Orthodox prevailed.. They were all speaking Greeks and not Latin... Most of that Empire's parts were into the Greek mainland.. As i said Turks appeared at the early 1000s , during the era , where the Crusades took place. As you might have read before the first tribe that apparted the first natives of the Balkan area were Dorieis... I will give you a good point though on Cyprus , since it was first a Finician qonquest, and after them all countries of the world took a turn.. Last one was Greece or better named Byzantium , which established the Greek languange and tradition.But even so, Cyprus was never really under anyone's flag, as Venetian's , English, France and so on , were occupying the Island , cause of its important geo-political and army location. At 1974 , you invaded into the island , taking by force the Northern part of it, ignoring any legal ways to establish any arguments you might had. But this is another discussion. As for "forcing to talk the Turkish languange"....really you should read your history books again...and again...and again... They were the first ones who , demolished churches, temples, schools and every sign of their qonquests culture in order to prevail. Turks of that era , were even gathering children (first born) from their parents , in order to bread them as muslims and ofcourse as Turks. Many of the ancient "miracles" of the Greek culture were destroyed during that period as they were "offered" (!!!!) as treats to people of other countries who did "favors" for the Empire.. Turks as all of the races , all over the world established their existance on the area , with force and blood. As for Macedonia.. someone before me , set an explanation about this name and where it comes from as a term...so i do not need to add anything.. except that when an area was and is called with a name of that origin ... it was and is populated by people of that origin... then i think that this area should be of that origin. Please ..next time you are going to answer , give some real facts and not "air words".. P.S. and lets make something clear. I do not have anything against Turks, Skopjians, Slavs, etc. I just really want to see the history "facts" straight. Thank you Gandalf

140 So talking about the facts huh? Let's make things clear, today you can see monuments even from ancient greece and later times of Byzantium (which is formerly the Eastern Roman Empire that has NOTHING to do with once-upon-a-time greek civilization) all around Anatolia just because Turkish rule has shown extreme indulgence to all other cultures that shared the same geography. I wonder how many Ottoman monuments survived in today's modern(!) Greece? What was the name of the greatest Ottoman mosque in Athens? No mosque in Athens survived? How many Ottoman monuments reamined in Greece? Stange, maybe Ottomans forgot to build monuments in that area? Don't make me laugh =) About "force and blood" issue, after the Ottomans have gained control of Istanbul Fatih Sultan Mehmed gave the ultimate ferman: "No habitant of the city will be harmed, no monument in the city will be damaged, else will be punished lethally, no matter who" and just half a year after the siege has ended twice more ones than the runaways returned peacefully to the city (with their own will) and the population of the greeks and armenians in the city was the peak in its whole history, it was a time of peace for the rest of its time unti WWI (unlike in he late Byzantinium times). Turks came to settle in Anatolia in 1071 AD and since then it is their homeland, you haven't get used to it, get along with it! "Since 1453" there has been peace and prosperity in Anatolia and people from different cultures all lived side by side in peace; that's the origin of it, but still you can get it anyway you wish. By the way, if yours was even to imply that Turks forced people to talk Turkish, your language would have already been extcint by now in that case my friend.These are the real facts, Istanbul case is just a single example of the big picture... How Turks showed great tolerance to other cultures unlike any other. And about the Cyprus issue, Turkey's 1974 intervention to the island was on a purely legal basis, 1960 Zurich-Londan international agreement (founder agreement to the former "Cyprus Republic" which exists no more) which gave right to intervene (to 3 countries: England, Turkey and Greece)when peace is endangered in the island. Go back to 60s and read about the situation yourself (if you can find ANY information in Greek sources) to see how peace was endangered by the hand of Greek cunda using Greek Cypriots to join the island to Greece. I'm wondering if you heard the name EOKA which was a terrorist Greek organization in the island which killed village-full of Turkish Cypriots and forced them to a small region in the Northern Cyprus. I'm quite sure that you haven't heard anything about the "Christmas Massacre" in which their own very holy-day Greeks slaugtered Turkish Cypriots no matter women or even childen! It was all going right on schedule: "The Akitras Plan" according to which Turks on the island will be forced to leave the island or be killed by the armed Greek Cypriot so-called civilians(!) Turkish Cypriots were all forced to group on a small region in the North, to make them easier to kill at once. I wonder if you heard even the name "Akitras Plan" either... So Turkey, after endless discussions with Greece and England to stop violence on the island which gave no conclusion, (BASED ON SOLELY LEGAL RIGHT ESTABLISHED BY 1960 LONDON-ZURICH AGREEMENTS WHICH FOUNDED THE FORMER "CYPRUS REPUBLIC") intervened the conflict which began more than a decade ago and brought back peace in the island. It has been 31 years since nobody is killed in an ethnic conflict in the island. Today there's a completely sovereign contry on the North of the island, "Northern Cyprus Turkish Republic" which has nothing to do with Turkey except the spoken language (still somehow different) and trade. So again, these are the facts my friend, Northern Cyprus is NOT a part of Turkey, and the 1974 intervention was a purely legal "DUTY" of the 3 countries, eventually Turkey had to make the move. Still talking about Cyprus? Look back in what Greek cunda and EOKA did on the island, how they sabotaged peace, that lead to the intervention. Still talking about an invasion? Read about Greek attempt on Anatolia! P.S. I guess now the things are more clear in the light of historical facts, see them straight! You're welcome. _________________________________________][-][_________

141 If you read this page... you will see that once more, all Hellenic people most here give you facts and you talk only with "if" and "or". The facts are facts. The movie alexander the great tell to people that macedonia is greek. once more the movies tell it again into the movie of tomb raider 2. yes yes! Turks, remember that into Costantinople there are just 6 million KURDS and they can fire all turkey for the name of greece hehe!yes yes! believe me that if a war happen into your country is the biggest war! cuz u know... for muslims, as kurds, the religion say some things, but they not say to kill people. kurds back of scene they wait just one war to kill you dudes. whatever of that i will just remember you, as the centuries most nations come here try to take greekce. millions and millions greeks die. after so many centuries. we are just again here one of the most powerful again into the same places and we be still the same! what about turk? tukrey is a country that always learn from greece. hey turks, do you have to let me see a civilization city in turkey? heyeyyyyyy dude! all that who you will tell me is GREEKS, u will try to tell me Costantinople or Smirni or Babylon ;-) are u kidding? this is before all greeks! come the barbarians to stole that cities. back in turkey, do you have any any? yes u have not cuz there is the kurdistan! is silly your talk. remember that: "" TURKS are mongols and should be SHOOT! "" Turkies have no rights, cuz just they are mistake of world! Turks also they are not muslims :-p they try to make them own muslim religion lol! tell me turk, do you know any nation that like you? no one like turks. since 1453 turk kill people, greeks, kurds, armenians etc etc. since 1821, HELLENICS freedom the balkan, and that little nation of GREECE without guns and nothing, just back and shoot out turks from balkans. we are so few and we take ALL THE GREECE yes and costantinople and pontus etc. Just after for a while for the peace of world give half half, cuz when greeks start to kill, we not stop! and we will remove you from this world you like it or not, we just wait that click ;-) so don't think so much, in 1821 we take the whole greece, that time we are so so few without guns and turks are so so many with so many guns, like macedonians with persians :-) thats why macedonia is greek also hehe! Now you simple can think: What greeks will do to turkey if a war, and now is not 1821, we are more and more (but still the same few as nation, as always) and we have guns! just you will prepare and hide into yur caves and you will think that. today or tommorow greeks will kill turks. doesn't matter when, we have to kill so many millions :-) once more Cyprus in all ancient documents write that is hellenic ;-) look historicals maps, and after tell me also where is the turkey? hehe! MACEDONIA IS ONE AND IS GREEK! also... CYPRUS, COSTANTINOPLE, SMYRNI, PONTUS, HPEIROS .. .. and so many other places are HELLENICS!

142 FUCKIN GAY SMELLY SLAVS!!!!

143 MACEDONIANS WHERE GREEKS OF THE DORIAN RACE.YOU FUCKIN BASTARD FYROMIANS ARE A BUNCH OF SLAVOBULGARS WITH ALBANIAN , GYPSIE AND TATAROMONGOLIAN BLOOD IN YOUR FILTHY NAINS!!!..MOTHERFUCKERS!!!..GO STEAL CROATIAS HISTORY!!!!

144 FYROMIANS = ALBANOSLAVOBULGARIAN GYPSIE MONGOLS!!!!!

145 FUCK OFF YOU SMELLY BULGAR FYROMIANS , SLAVISH PIECES OF SHIT!!!!!

146 Gandalf....you fuckin Mongol turkish pig....EVERY PLACE YOU MENTIONED IS OURS!!!..go read some history you smelly ignorant barbarian mongol turk!!!!!!THE BYZANTINE EMPIRE WAS HELLENIC!!!! you motherfucker moslem pig!!!...you came from the steps of Mongolia..AND THAT IS WHERE WE ARE GOING TO SEND YOU..WHEN THE TIME COMES!!!..YOUR DOOM IS COMING MONGOL BASTARDS..WE WILL SEND YOU BACK TO YOUR MOTHERLAND ( MONGOLIA )!!!

147 I see in the light of the facts Greeks seem to loose the last bits of sanity and sensibility I thought they have... But that's kind of normal, the moment you can't answer the call of truth, the moment reality a slaps your face, the moment once again the history shows -with evidence- all your blames on Turks are false and worthless, then you Greeks start to vomit your hatred originated from your humbleness in front of the Turks all throughout history. Greeks really are the spoilt kid of Europe in their lap (no offense; even the Greeks say so)! You're really nothing without the support of Europe from your back and you know that, it has always been so, else everything would have been different. And look who's talking about war... There's a word in Turkish: "Defeated Pehlivan* won't get enough of wrestling". You're still dreaming about a war that will never come true unless you try to cross the MERIC RIVER. If you haven't learnt anything from the greatest leader of 20th century Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, learn one thing: "War is murder unless defense of the nation is concerned" and so I say as every citizen of the Turkish Republic; the past is past. Motherland is not the place you once lived 3000 years ago, is it so difficult for the Greeks to live in today's world? It is the Turks protected and preserved Greek culture for almost a millenium. As we live with our Kurdish originated brothers (except for the terrorist PKK and their symphatizans) in peace now, we lived in peace with Greeks, Armenians and more in this geography with showing deep respect to their culture. That's why they still have something they call culture at their disposal. For those of you who are still willing to discuss issues in a sensible manner, you're always welcome to do so. For those of you who are still dreaming to sweep 70 million Turks back to middle asia from where we came, sleep well! Or come to see the places you mentioned are hellenic or NOT... P.S: If you pay attention; I'm not using nor will be using dirty words, so I expect the same for those of you, elsewise is the "incapability" of yourselves. P.S.2: Where's the Greek guy Gandalf telling me not to talk about "air words", see for yourself who's doing so! *Pehlivan = Wrestler _________________________________________][-][_________

148 first of all... Greek Macedonian... I am also from Greece and i to tell you the truth the words you use are not expressing me... Please reply if you wish with arguments as we must do and stop swearing..only idiots do that. SInce 1453.. You still have not set a single historical argument to confont what i have previously set. Attaturk was a Turkish leader , for your country , but he was also responsible for the great massacre of the people in Smirni. It was a time of war and as in all wars , people tend to be more like beasts than human persons. As for the war we are seeking...who is seeking it?...Us, who are staying in our side of the border? Or is it you with your "demands" in Aegean sea, the limmitations of human right regarding Kurds and Armenians , that you dare to use as arguments in your message? Respect to our borders?...Only last week , during the NATO exercise , 45 air-violations took place by your planes. Not to mention Immia which are characterised as a part of Greece by a treatie. Greek Culture has survived , based clearly on our strength and will, and certainly not cause Turks were , "fans" of it. Last week, there was also an annual festival , which was stating the Pontos massacre which is still not accepted by you as a fac. Something that was used as an excepted argument in E.U. , for the noumerous human rights violations you are accused of , among the "white cells" and Kurdish assasinations... "Air words" stands for the lack of arguments , something that you still have not proved you are able to provide. Gandalf p.s. for what it worths, i honour your effort to keep a civillised level on your words and that is why i replied to you...

149 since 1453.. i just read the answer right after my post so give a second to "throw down" all of arguments placed.. Turks were trully residents of Anatolia since the age given... How , though , they were there in the first place?... Through countless raids and fights against the Byzantium which was a mix of Greek tradition and languange ... They did not speak Latin (Romans did), and they were supporters of Christian Orthodox religion right after which was tottaly different than the one the Romans had (Catholics).. So Byzantium was of Greek origin... As for Constantinoupoli (later named as Istanbul) was conquered and occupied by Turks , BY FORCE!!! they were not invited...to stay there.. As for the command of "not to harm anyone". Noone respected it, and the destruction of the richest eastern city was a fact. Pieces of gold leaves and platerns were extracted from the walls of palaces and the temple of Ag.Sofia...which btw, is today, not maintened right and several scrolls and papers of that era , have been found recently in storages, deeped in moisture and fongus. This is how well they were preserved by your Empire. During the seige of Acropolis in Athens, Turkish army , took down marbles and several other structures , which had as a skeleton , inside them ,metal and matterials , in order to use them for gun powder. Parthenon marbles , also called as Elginia today , were extracted from the temple , during your occupance era, as a gift to Lord Elgin, who was also responsible for taking down almost the whole of the temple. That is how well you preserve historical monuments. As for monuments , in our country regarding Turkish origin...PLEASE NAME ONE... cause i really do not not know , a single structure which could even compare to the ones our ancesters build. Cyprus... Still speaking about that island? You seem to forget that Cyprus was under its own flag as a country and also occupied by UK at that time. Indeed there was a time that discussions were taking place, but since you were not satisfied you went into war?...nice... like saying , now , i am not satisfied with your argument ,so i am entittled to take a gun and blow your head off. Indeed another example on how you deal with things that are opposite to your oppinion, on diplomatical level. As for Greeks invading Anatolia...how can you invade into an area which was yours in the first place?... I will agree on you , though that war is turning people into beasts and brutallities were taking part by both parts of that conflict. In conclusion, Greeks are a part of mankind history for 5000 years. They were the first "parents" of philosophy, sciences, art..in the European area. Today we still manage to exist and play a significant role in many issues arround the world , on both, cultural and political level. We still try to be friends with all of our neighbours and run to their aid any time asked... History is a record , which we ALL, really need to study first and talk later. Keep a wide perspective of things and learn from it. We are really proud of our contribution to that record, can you say the same about you? Gandalf

150 Being the first in a place can never ba a basis to your claims in any place... You Greeks tend to claim every piece of soil, it doesn't matter how many Greeks lived and for how long on that soil. "A Greek once lived on the soil you stepped, 6700 years ago, it's mine; back-off!". Speaking on a hypothetical basis, what if we people of the Turkish Republic decide to go back to middle asia from where we came to claim today's Mongolian lands and fight a war for the land just because we used to live there 3000 years ago, is this invasion or not my friend? It is invasion, just as you claimed almost-a-millenium Turkish soil based on your once-upon-a-time fairies... Please I beg you to come back to THE DAYS OF OUR LIVING, overcome this complex of yours; home is not where one's ancestors once-upon-a-time lived, it is where one lives. Besides even more ancient ones used to live on Anatolia before the Greeks; Hitities, Eti's, Assyrians, I wonder how they baceme excint... Oh, yes maybe it was again the Turks who erased them all Or one day you may even claim that Hitities or Eti's were the very ancestors of Greeks upon which you were originated. Then you're still talking about people stealing your(!) history. About the raid of Istanbul when it was Constantinople, look back what the crusaders did to the city before 1453 and read history about how "...the people were trembling within the city walls with the fear of each coming crusade...". Only after that you can understand why people raced with each other to come back and settle in Istanbul under the Ottoman rule which is the evidence that it became a more secure an lively city afer the Byzantines. Yet Byzantines were not the founder of the city but Romans were. I don't know how you can say that Byzantines were of Greek origin; they're purely of Roman origin. Byzantinium was just the eastern part of the Great Roman Empire which LATER accepted Orthodox Christianity and LATER decided to be somehow different from its ROMAN ROOTS. Then you're still talking about people stealing your(!) history. By the way though it is solely because of your own ignorance that you couldn't name any of the Ottoman monuments in your own country but I'll still help you improve yourself: RHODES: "...it's hard to miss the most conspicuous monument in Rhodes, the rust-coloured Süleymaniye mosque. Rebuilt in the nineteenth century on foundations three hundred years older, it's currently closed and under scaffolding like most local Ottoman monuments. The Old Town is in fact well sown with mosques and mescids (the Islamic equivalent of a chapel). A couple of these mosques are still used by the sizeable Turkish-speaking minority here, some of them descended from Muslims who fled Crete between 1898 and 1913 because of the Greek invasion. Their most enduring civic contributions are, opposite the Süleymaniye, the Ottoman Library, with a rich collection of early medieval manuscripts and Korans, and the imposing, still-functioning hamam , or Turkish bath, on Platía Ariónos up in the southwest corner of the medieval city...". ATHENS: "...The old nineteenth-century quarter of Pláka , in particular, is a delight, with its mix of Turkish, Neoclassical and Greek-island architecture..." You can still name more castles, citadels, hamams and bridges (which actually Greeks failed to destroy with the fear of incapability to replace them with their own techniques at those times) of Turkish origin that survived the raid. But apart from those almost all other building, monuments especially mosques, even the smallest ones, were burnt or demolished, some even with inhabitants inside, right after the Ottoman rule has ended on the peninsula or even during the war. There still are lots of great Ottoman monuments all around the Balkans, one of the greatest just at the border city with Greece, Edirne. And you're telling that Ottomans built nothing significant on the peninsula during their half-a-millenium rule over the Greeks? Don't make me laugh, you destroyed them to the smallest ones (save a few of them preserved by the Ottomans as changed to mosques). You can still see remnants of ancient cities of all civilizations lived in Anatolia including Hitities, Greeks, Eti's and even more just because Turks showed tolerance and respect to other cultures all along our history and preserved theirs as you destroyed all but yours. They're not in perfect condition I admit, but neither destroyed to the ground on purpose as Greeks did. You seem to have at least one problem with each of them and strangely you can still trying to support that Greece is showing so extreme effort to get well neighbours.Strange isn't it? =) Your glorious days are 5000 years far from now when there were no rivals aroud you, once again I suggest you to wake up and come to real world. Every nation of course should be proud of their own contibution to that "record" but I know no other to be more proud than the Turks for their contribution. As even of now whoever hates the Turks that's because of their jealousy and humbleness in front of our ancestors. __________________________________________][-][__________

151 And one brief note about Cyprus: I see you haven't touched the EOKA Greeks terrorizing the island and salughtering Turkish Cypriots before Turkish intervention. You still talk like if Turkey "brutally attacked a peacefully living small country" but you know by well, that was not the case before the intervention. It didn't just happened all of a sudden! Turkey's decision to use its LEGAL RIGHT to intervene the almost-civil-war on the island was not an easy one but because of unconcluded diplomatic traffic between Greece-Turkey-UK because neither UK nor Greece (which was responsible for the violence on the island actually) showed no will to stop people from killing each other on the island even when Greek Cypriots put all Turkish presence on the island to a small northern location from where they can be "cleaned" at once within a matter of hours! Sometimes it is not the time to wait-and-see (the people being slaughtered), sometimes it needs more than words to accomplish things, especially peace. For 30 years and nobody got killed in an ethnic conflict which is the evidence of peace restored on the island for a long time now. So who put a gun on who's head? I guess it was the Greek Cypriots to do so on Turkish Cypriots' head! __________________________________________][-][__________

152 Nice... really nice.. arguments at last.. So my friend i am more than willing to discuss with you now. Lets start from the past... Past , history ,or however it is called , makes us what we are. You are talking about Turkish monuments, which exist in Greek soil, though as i told you , i live here and certainly the one you called in Plaka , (downtown Athens) simply DOES NOT EXIST!..at least not in the way you describe it. All buildings in Plaka were build during the early 1900s and certainly do not carry out , Turkish culture. Care to give me your sources uppon that description? But even if we agree on their existance , there is no real comparison with the structures of the era i am describing of. Castles and forts described , were builded by Venetians, Frangous and so on who needed them in order to defend their sea trade and at the same time , have an "observer" in the area. Mistras is one of those forts. The only "wall" and certainly not a castle builded by the Turks , which exists until today was the addition in height of Acropolis perimeter wall, which can be viewed , also in many cards, pictures and so on. Unless you mean that old jail tower in Nafplio , where Kolokotronis was convicted , as a masterpiece of Art which is capable to get into a contest with the temples of Posidon , Artemis , Acropolis, and so on... As for maintaining cultures by Turkish people.. it is quite vissible , by the fact i just mentioned , describing the condition Ag.Sofia temple is and several scripts found in it..and it was broadcasted by BBC and CNN all over the world so it wont be too hard for you to discover it...oh..btw.. Ancient civillisations were not taken out by Greeks , but by Egyptians and Romans... We had nothing to do with that. Quite the opposite , both Persians, Finicians tried to gain over Greek mainland Any way as i am not living in the past as you claim , (though i really learn a lot from it)you are talking that we tend to claim all soils we have stepped on... That is a big LIE...Name one OFFICIAL case that we demand the soil back , based uppon our ancient fathers ,and by trying to step on our neighboors.. i could name a few , for your own country, sadly enough. Immia, Grey zones "demands" and so on.. not to mention air violations which were brought in front of E.U. as a counter argument , concerning your "repsects" to a country-member of the E.U. As for problems with neghbours...need to remind you that they are the ones who are taking an offensive position towars us? Albanians with the "great country of their?" FYROM "which was a part of Tito's Yugoslavia" suddenly decided to be named after a greek name? (described the origin of the word above) Turkey which is always trying to get hands on positions over the Aegean islands? Have you ever heard as i said before a single argument by the Greek goverment which is demanding foreign soil or names?...no..not a single one... We still stay on our side of the borders and some take it as a "sign of weakness"...Several before them have made that same error and got a creamed face as souvenir.. EOKA, was a fictional organisation , made up by the UK and Turkey just like the exaguration made by the Clinton goverment for the slaughters made by Servians. But even if that was true, (which was not) and the proofs were true , why then the UN never took place next to your side? Why was not there an effort like the one made for Serajevo and Iraq to take it "in the clear"?...answer...cause proofs were not there... it was just an excuse , in order for the Turkish army , to gain harbours and significant army locations into the mediteranean and close to Iran , Syria and other countries , which were "unfriendly" to you (and still are i think!!) So the Turkish army , with absolutelly no warning , whatsoever , invade the island and are still there , despite obvious pressures by E.U and UN .. Despite the promise of Greece to tottal disarmament of the island .. Do i still need to remind you , that the biggest obstacle for Turkey to join E.U. is cause of Cyprus occupance? We are living in the present , and we are looking into the future.That is why , we are a part of the western world and play such significant roles in both cultural and political level. We do not want to keep others back .Not even your country which is proving to behave in hostile way against us. We support your petition to join E.U. Only term is to respect us and our borders...and that same term is for the rest of the Balkans.. That is why we are friends now with Bulgary , Romany and so on.. With Italy, Servia and so on... all of them are in our borderline and do not have problems with them.. Gandalf P.S. I have to thank you again for standing up to your beliefs and provide intelligent discussions , comparing to other "unfortunate" discussions with other people here .

153 P.S. and just to make clear my term stated as "fictional" , EOKA was an organisation founded at the middle 1940s , right after the WWII when Cyprus was fighting to get independent against Britain's rulers.Something that was achieved in the early 1960s ... Few years before a small percentage of the Turkish people in the area started to commit offences against both Greek and Turkish Cypriots citizens and their properties. And that was the "step over" that both Turkish and Britain goverment used as an official excuse to engage in those "official bargains" for an island right in front of Shuez canal , next to most of the countries with oil production.. Under no circumstances , that organisation could be named as "terrorists" or "criminals"... Unless you think that they should be enlisted under the same category as you characterised PKK... Gandalf

154 Name me one big Ottoman mosque (built by them not converted from a church to be preserved) survived on the Greek peninsula then we'll go on with our discussion with who preserves other cultures' history. But don't come to me with the argument that Ottomans didn't build anything on the peninsula, look all around Balkans it's full of Ottoman monuments (bridges, mosques, hamams, libraries, castles lots of things) how can you even claim that they didn't put 2 stones on each other for almost half a millenium they ruled over you! Preservation is something, taking care of is something else, you have to preserve it not demolish it, to take care of later. Now abut the Greek claims, I have never spoken a word of any OFFICIAL claims done by you, you could never dare to do OFFICIAL claims about any piece of soil anymore, but for the sake of making things clear the last time was the Greek Junta claimed the whole of Cyprus to be joined to mother Greece. Not to mention that you went war against Turkey claiming its very own soil (the soil upon which TURKISH people live as a majority) which ended with your defeaty in 1922. Nevertheless those were not the ones I have been mentioning but your words as Izmir, Istanbul, Cyprus, Blacksea region all being "HELLENIC". The claim I'm talking about is saying that a place is hellenic and to do that claim it's enough for you that just a few Greeks lived on thet geography for several millenia before. According to you that place is hellenic no matter what raced lived thereon beore and after you. So, yes you UNOFFICIALLY claim every step of soil to be hellenic which is actually WRONG! The only places hellenic are TODAY'S GREECE and the SOUTHERN PART OF CYPRUS but NOTHING MORE! As for the EOKA being "fictional", I've heard many excuses from the Greeks but, no offense but, this is the silliest among them all I've ever heard!!! What should one must do to prove you that it's real? Search google with the letters EOKA and see how much material you'll find. I know lot more than you think about the history of EOKA, no matter when (in 1955) or with which aim (to accomplish unification of the island with Greece - ENOSIS) it was founded all its acts after could ony and only be categorized as terrorism. BRIEF NOTE ON EOKA: "EOKA [Ethniki Organosis Kyprion Agoniston - National Organization of Cypriot Fighters] started a guerrilla campaign against British colonial rule aimed at self-determination and union with Greece (Enosis)on 01 April 1955. The campaign, which started when the first EOKA bombs exploded at 00.30 hours on 1st of April 1955, lasted until 1959 and caused the death of more Turkish Cypriot civilians than the total of British killed. It created civil strife and mistrust between the two Cypriot communities. Tension increased in early 1957, when EOKA attacked Turkish police and auxiliaries. EOKA received direct support from Greece in money, arms, organization and propaganda. Greek-speaking Cypriots were awed by EOKA terrorists and subject to bombardment by Athens radio. Under a 1959 compromise settlement known as Zurich-London agreements (which also include RIGHT OF INTERVENTION to 3 GUARANTEER STATES: Greece, Turkey, UK -- ][-][), Cyprus became an independent Republic in 1960. EOKA-B emerged twice, in 1963 and 1974, in collaboration and cooperation with Greece, to attack the Turkish Cypriots, one of the two co-founding partners of the Republic of Cyprus, with the aim of uniting the Island with Greece." EOKA killed more than 400 Turkish Cypriot civilians between the years 1963-1968 including women and unprotected chidren - of which evidential photos are also available that I can send to anyone upon request -. However so few photos can be found in the name of the acts of terrorist EOKA because Turkish Cypriots have already been "cleaned" from all public organizations, including even health services, and total control of the island was at the hands of Greek Cypriot communinity and thus the Greek junta. All phone lines were broken and all press material to be leaving the island were subject to Greek Cypriot authorities to be censored when seemed neccessary. This photo I speak of women and children killed by EOKA terrorist ON THE CHRISTMAS OF 1963 was escaped from the island as put inside the plaster of a wounded Turkish Cypriot. If you dare enough to see and learn the truth you can search the letters EOKA on the web and you can find enough convincing evidence on the subject matter. No more words on EOKA being an "existent" and "terrorist" organizaton, yes, just as PKK. No matter which organization, under which name, founded with what aim, kills unarmed civilians, that's a terrorist organization! From 1960 to 1974 Turkey forced every possible diplomatic way to stop violence and resolve conflicts on the island with Greece and UK. Stop pretending as if all the problems emerged in 1974 with Turkey intervening the conflict on the island, stop pretending as if ethnic conflicts first started by Greek terrorist organization EOKA had never happened, stop pretending as if Greek Cypriots never tried to realize ENOSIS by killing or terrorizing Turkish Cypriots, stop pretending as if Turkish Cypriots haven't been cleaned from all public duties and the island haven't been under de-facto Greek rule for years; there's a long past chain of events involving Greek Cypriot terrorists backed up from Greek junta and endless diplomatic traffic between 3 countries, not to mention countless WARNINGS Turkey expressed before using its RIGHT TO INTERVENE. P.S. my source to my last post on Athens: www.justgreece.org my source to brief note on EOKA: www.globalsecurity.org (both of them are sources reflecting Greek point of view) P.S.2 my e-mail is doors_demon@yahoo.com and I will send pictures to what EOKA terrorists did on the island upon request via e-mail (if you even dare to see them). __________________________________________][-][_________

155 here is a link with new map of GREECE and KURDISTAN ;-) check out. the comments yours hehe! http://www.geocities .com/xtomailx/maps/index.html NOTE: YES proudly EOKA is a FREEDOM GROUP who killed all bastards turks and british when they come in cyprus. READ: 1955 ELLAS KUPROS ENOSIS: some kids into ages 14-22 stole some army guns and kick out british army from cyprus! PROUDLY GREEK KIDS FOREVER. Just at last look the map ok :-) http://www.geocities .com/xtomailx/maps/index.html MACEDONIA IS ONE AND IS GREEK HELLENIC TURKS ARE MONGOLS AND SHOULD BE SHOOT! NEW GREEK AND KURD MAP. MSG: KILL TURKS! and REMOVE TURKS FROM WORLD AS WE DO PERSIANS I HAVE GIVE PROOFS I TALK I ASK. BUT NO ANSWER CUZ THAT MEANS THEY HAVE NOT PROOFS. PEOPLE LIKE YOU WITHOUT ANSWER>>> STUPID> In all forum i not say nothing for bad talk... but now i can free say cuz you are real stupid turks, skopje and albanians. i have answer in all your messages... but i have NO answer in mine texts cuz simple you bastards! without nothing to tell, only stupid things. just run and read my test on and answer me ;-) if NOT answer that means you have no proofs. accept answers only with proofs like me. :-)

156 First of all , fellow Greeks, please keep this civillised ... Our friend here, since 1453 , is talking uppon soemething with arguments, with no swearings and he is certainly entittled to support his point of view... So please stop swearing ... it cal only bring down the level of this discussion... As for my friend since 1453,(and i mean the word "Friend" since i have nothing against you)... EOKA as stated was a Freedom group , struggling for independence against British rulling. Your source it does express the Greek point of view , although there is not a single point in that text that speaks about "photos from terrorist acts"..the part that is mentioning... {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{EOKA-B emerged twice, in 1963 and 1974, in collaboration and cooperation with Greece, to attack the Turkish Cypriots, one of the two co-founding partners of the Republic of Cyprus, with the aim of uniting the Island with Greece." EOKA killed more than 400 Turkish Cypriot civilians between the years 1963-1968 including women and unprotected chidren - of which evidential photos are also available that I can send to anyone upon request -. However so few photos can be found in the name of the acts of terrorist EOKA because Turkish Cypriots have already been "cleaned" from all public organizations, including even health services, and total control of the island was at the hands of Greek Cypriot communinity and thus the Greek junta.}}}}}}}}}}}} is not mentioned anywhere in the Greek source and i am wondering , where is it originated from. "Fictional" was an "unlucky used term" of mine to show you that EOKA was not a terrorist group...It was a liberation movement , just like IRA (when it was firts formed, not today), like PKK and so on.. As for claims... as you have previously stated in your posts. how can i claim something that was mine in the first place?...Same goes for Greece here, as the sea-side of Black-Sea was inhabbited by the race of Pontious... Smirni and Istanbull were given to us , after a war against you , with Lozane treaty which was giving us Dodekanisa, and the seaside of Western Anatolia (as you prefer to call it) including Smirni. The only Islands legaly given to you were Imvros (where i was borned) and Tenedos . I know now , from first hand , how people of Turkish regimes , hunted down every Greek person , familiarised with his fortune and send them away , under no excuse. And to support my arguments i am reminding you that Turkey has been convicted by the EU courts , to pay back all "taken away" fortunes of , former Greek residents of the area... As for your claimings,,,your unreasonable demands (your goverment's i mean) were made in an oficial way , concerning sea boundaries on the Aegean Sea, Imia, and so on... Which were all legally given to us , as a part of several treaties... I will answer to your mail for a more , intermediate chat, (and more peacefull i hope) for further comments on anything you wish... Gandalf

157 OK, EOKA and IRA may be formed as a rebellion acts for liberation and standing for self-determination AT FIRST, but not thereafter (as I know a lot about them unlike seems that you know NOTHING about PKK). The island of Cyprus became an independent republic by the year 1960 based on 2 ethnic communities: Turkish and Greek. If the aim of EOKA were the liberation of island, it has already been accomplished by that time, what was it doing on the island after that? If the liberation(!) was not yet complete by 1960, when would it be completed? The EOKA answer was straight; it can only be accomplished when all Turks were wiped off from the surface of the island and ENOSIS (unification with Greece mainland) is completed. For that reason EOKA killed more Turkish Cypriot civilians than they killed British (including their soldiers). EOKA continued its activities to liberate(!) the island even after 1960 from Turkish Cypriots (civilians) with using brute force and putting gun on their heads. That is what makes them a TERRORIST GROUP (not at the instant it was founded but later) just like IRA and BASK. However I can't go on further before mentioning a small fact that makes significant difference between these TERRORIST groups with TERRORIST PKK (active in the south-eastern region of Turkey which claimed 30,000 - YES 30,000 - lives of the citizens of Turkish Republic, including almost 5000 soldiers of the Turkish Army fighting terror, which means they caused more than 25,000 civlian causalities) since 1980. The difference is that, when it was first formed, PKK was formed as a TERRORIST ACT RIGHT AT THE BEGINNING. All their actions were against the civilians, including bombings in major cities all around Anatolia not only in the south-eastern part in the 80's, before Turkish Army started hunting them down. COCNCLUSION: Any organization pointing guns towards unarmed civilians is terrorist a organization without further discussion. Though all EOKA, IRA, BASK and PKK (under numerous different names) fall into this category, only PKK differs from others by being FORMED (FOUNDED) AS A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION RIGHT FROM THE BEGINNING. You couldn't even imagine how my childhood passed in the fear of terror, so don't come to me with more ignorant and stupid claims on terrorism, terrorist groups and what is terrorism, I've lived it and I know how is it like! One more point to be cleared out in the last post of GANDALF: Lausanne Treaty didn't grant control to Greeks of any piece of soil on Anatolia. It was once Sevres Treaty which has been RIPPED-OFF with the Turkish War of Independence, never to come back ever again. Lausanne Treaty giving a part of Anatolia was either a misunderstanding of mine or a repeated ignorance of yours my friend. On the Aegean, by the way, according to the Lausanne Treaty "12 major Aegean islands and minor outlying islets of theirs, which are BETWEEN the major island and the Greek mainland peninsula are thereafter under Greek control with the restriction that no airfields or military establishments can be founded upon any of them" - READ IT CAREFULLY!!! leaving the rest of the islets (approximately 150 of them) and 2 mid-sized islands Gokceada and Bozcaada (with the reason that they're too close to the Canakklae Strait and therefore may BLOCK the way at will), which are extensions from the 2 opposite sides of the Canakkale Strait actually, to Turkey. And about the "hellenic"(!) claims, even if something were yours at the beginning (which was not actually) you can NOT claim anything out of it after 5000 years. Talking about Anatolia, many different civilizatons grew on this land for several millenia, long before the appearence of Greeks; the Hitite's, the Eti's, Frygian's, Iskit's, even Assyrians and Babylonians on this very land. Anatolia has not been Greek at first but later, for some time, which was a long past from now, giving no basis for any "hellenic"(!) claims on this land, in our times. If all were to make claims on the geographies the lived once, Turks (in addition to its current geography) should be claiming all the Balkans, North of Africa up to Iberian Peninsula and Middle East up to Middle Asia including some part of today's China (mostly the Middle Asia & China because we lived there first(!), 6000 years ago ). However this would have been a silly claim, yet no sillier than the Greek point of view on Anatolia. Just as other civilizations lived on this peninsula long before us and among us thereafter, many have also lived before the Greeks! But, just to mention, among them all Istanbul being hellenic(!) is the funniest claim, since, formerly being Constantinople, the city was founded purely by the Romans long before the eastern part of the Roman Empire, which was of Latin origin (NOT Greek at all), started calling itself Byzantinium and accepted Orthodox religion. So though it is not a healty way to look through, you Greeks are inconsistent with yourselves when saying Istanbul is hellenic (meaning of Greek origin), it is wrong even from your point of view because Latins lived there long before you, they were the first to found the city. GOT IT? GOOD! P.S: Thanks for Thessaloniki Voice showing the real face and real way of thinking of the Greek people. But your map needs updating since you forgot to give away the north-eastern region of Anatolia to Armenians, don't upset them! As I said before, sleep well so in your dreams you may see them. P.S2: I've given away all my sources to my comments in "quotation marks", plus I'll send the photos I've been talking about showing resuts of terrorist acts of EOKA in Cyprus. __________________________________________][-][_________

158 About the issue of Cyprus,,, I have answered to your email so i find it ,useless to continue on here.. You are right about the Sevres treaty, (my mixup..that is true), but Airfields are mentioned in Lausane treatie as mentioned.. http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:bBgaSGhWVT0J:www.law.fsu.edu/library/collection/LimitsinSeas/IBS041.pdf+air+border+treaties+Greece-Turkey&hl=el the link has a nice description of our borders.. Dodekanisa were assigned to us, under the Paris treaty in 1947. Thank you for giving me a chance to clear the facts... my bad... As for continuing the debate..well right now you have my email , so the ball is in your court.. Gandalf

159 my appologies for the long link of mine here is the one needed to download a .pdf of the description given. http://www.law.fsu.edu/library/collection/LimitsinSeas/IBS041.pdf Gandalf

160 RE MALAKA!! Since 1453, bla-bla-bla no facts.. The Greeks have allways lived in Cyprus, and we will allways do, go home to asia! It has allways belonged to Greece and will allways do. Why are you fighting this fight, that only greece can win? Cyprus IS greek, wether you like it or not. So leave our island alone....And IF you wish to stay - stay as tourists in Greece! For that is what cyprus belongs to! Cyprus is just as greek as Crete! ////FC CREW 2005

161 All countries around hate Turkey cuz they are like mongols. NO facts. 6 millions KURDS wait Greek signal to help GREEKS to smash whole TURKEY! READ THIS: READ HERE ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ A year after Hashan pasha with 10000 men besieged Konstantinos Kolokotronis and Panagiotes Venetsanakis with 150 men and women, in two towers in Kastania. They fought 12 days and finally most of them were killed. The prisoners of war were tortured and cut in peaces. The wife of Konstantinos Kolokotronis was dressed like a warrior and fought her way carrying her baby who was Theodoros Kolokotronis the future leader of the great revolution of 1821. After the war of 1770 the Maniates were forced to pay to the Sultan 15.000 groshes ever year. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Turkey need 12 days with 10.000 thousands Turks army with guns to kill 150 Greek men, women and childrens. You see what happen when u try to fight Greeks? But how many or better how many thousands Turks killed in that fight? For sure more and more.

162 WE WILL FIGHT IF NECESSARY! DONT THINK THAT YOU COUCKGHY TURKS, MONGOLS OR TO MAKE IT EASIER; MONKEYS!!! By the way! "Thessaloniki Voice!", would you like to join our organisation free cyprus? we fight to free cyprus from the turks, and makedonia from the skopjans.... FREE CYPRUS AND MAKEDONIA!! ////FC CREW 2005

163 Albanians are cool! They have helped Greek economy tremendously. We should be grateful to them and not treat them bad. Besides we should not forget that there are a lot of Greeks of Albanian origin (Arvanites). Take some of the Greek surnames: Kriezis, Voglis, etc. They are all ALBANIAN WORDS! Albanians came to Greece for the first time in the 11th century. Furthermore, a lot of the Greek heroes of Independence were of Albanian origin like Karaiskakis, Markos Botsaris, Bouboulina. Those stupid boys who shout in the football stadiums racist slogans against Albanians might be of Albanian origin too without being aware of it! The problem is that in all schools in the Balkans, history is taught in an ETHNOCENTRIC way, presenting our balkan neighbours as enemies. Chrissi Avgi (Golden Dawn) is a group of Fascists with a Nazi ideology. A very dangerous group for the Greek nation. These guys enjoy hitting immigrants, homosexuals, and on the whole everyone who is "different". But don't be afraid of them. Their IQ is less than zero!!!! Finally, all of us in the Balkans have interacted with one another culturally over the centuries. Each nation has influenced every other. We Greeks have influenced and have also been influenced by our Balkan neighbours. Don't forget the big number of Turkish words that exist in all the Balkans' vocabulary. Some examples: fukara, budalla, zori, tavani, meraki, etc. Last but not least, we should all bear in mind that all cultures in the world are equal and no culture is superior or inferior to any other. Don't forget that "A Barbarian is someone who believes in the barbarity of the other". With friendly regards to everyone in the forum Nikos from Greece

164 well, it is a nice message, although it is a bit one-sided... First of all 11TH Century and Albanians?...To start with ... there was no noation called Albania at that time , since the area was first occupied by Turkish Empire and right afterwards by the Enetians and several other of Italian origin people and casts. Golden Dawn is indeed supporting the fascist idea.Their IQ?... i am not eqquiped to judge them as humans...i am able to judge them for their beliefs. UCHEKA does also believe in the same way for thei Ethnic origin. does this make them stupid also?.. or did you forget them? Karaiskakis origin was from Arvanites indeed, which under no circumstances could have been called Alvanoi... Tsamides were the ones who were later called Albanians...btw... Bouboulina was born in Spetses by parents of Ipiros origin and certainly not by Arvanites or Tsamides... i do not think you are right on this one. And finally , could you elaborate on the issue that is describing that Albaninas helped out Greek Economy?... caus over what i know , from political and financial studies, it is the other way arround.. Exchange currency was moved out without taxes. Offered jobs to several thousands of people who were starving under Berissa's ruling. Loans were given on international level to build hospitals and several other corporations , which brought reduced rate on investments for inside bussines of Greece.. Also ,until today, there are several loans given to Albania , from Greece as a result of a Balkan treaty while Prime Minister Simitis was in charge of Greece's goverment... Now if you are reffering to the Olympic Games of Athens, you should know that besides Albanians (who would be too starving if those jobs did not exist in the first place), Pakistanians, Filippinese, Polands, Germans, French and so on were also working for this INTERNATIONAL event... As for Turkish languange...noone deny this.. it is a natural outcome of 400 years of occupance at Balkan's area. Gandalf

165 Sorry for any grammar and syntax mistakes , as i was typing fast.. Gandalf

166 well about language. Turkey have nothing to say. Look at CIA world Factbook ;-) The 20% of Turks are KURDS so the languages knowing official in Turkey are: Turkish 71%, Kurdish 21%, Greek (Hellenic) 3% Arab - Armenian & others 5%. About Albania... albania was for first time this name arround 18th cenury i think. Before and the ancient name is Illyrians. At start Illyrians are a kind country-city like athenians and spartans, so they are too Greek. After long time when barbarians come they mixed with them. So Illyrians the today albanians are a nation with no identify by past and the only Greek province of ancient that mixed with other. so thats why they are not greeks till today. Alexander the great have in his army and Illyrians so that happen before they mixed. I know that albanians when they back to them country they speak there almost more the GREEK Language cuz they want to saw to other that they are in Greece who is better ;-) and via that to talk Greek feeling like they are albanians but a half greek so that feel more better than other Albanians. Arvanites are GREEKS lived there and they gone cuz they are not the mixed Illyrians but they are clear as well. Thats why. As you see Arvanites is a greek absolutly word by syntax. ;-) so as well don;t be silly with this. That who i said i take source by the UNI-Stuttgart in Germany that i study before and as well all uni in europe say the same. Keep smile as macedonia is greek like hpeiros, imbros tenedos, cyprus, m.asia and costantinoupoli.

167 Ellas - Greece - Hellenic Republic - Hellas...... Ellas - Greece - Hellenic Republic - Hellas...... ------------------------------------------------- ######## ##################################### ######## ##################################### ######## ######## ######## ######## ############################# ############################# ######## ######## ######## ######## ######## ##################################### ######## ##################################### ################################################# ################################################# ################################################# ################################################# ------------------------------------------------- Ellas - Greece - Hellenic Republic - Hellas...... Ellas - Greece - Hellenic Republic - Hellas...... -- www.codelux.gr www.codelux.org www.i-macedonia.com www.uigr.com www.greekhackers.org -- cosmmin@gmail.com hellas@codelux.gr --

168 Ellas - Greece - Hellenic Republic - Hellas...... Ellas - Greece - Hellenic Republic - Hellas...... - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -------------------------------------------------- |########````####################################| |########````####################################| |########````########````````````````````````````| |########````########````````````````````````````| |````````````````````############################| |````````````````````############################| |########````########````````````````````````````| |########````########````````````````````````````| |########````####################################| |########````####################################| |````````````````````````````````````````````````| |````````````````````````````````````````````````| |################################################| |################################################| |````````````````````````````````````````````````| |````````````````````````````````````````````````| |################################################| |################################################| -------------------------------------------------- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Ellas - Greece - Hellenic Republic - Hellas...... Ellas - Greece - Hellenic Republic - Hellas...... -- www.codelux.gr www.codelux.org www.i-macedonia.com www.uigr.com www.greekhackers.org -- cosmmin@gmail.com hellas@codelux.gr -- Copyright ©1999-2005 Codelux.org. All rights reserved.

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170 well my friend "kostasandaleko" kosta kai aleko. you ask me to join ////FC Crew. Well... mporeite na mou steilete email me more info peri tou thematos :-) steilte mou email sto < cosmmin@gmail.com > < c o s m m i n @ g m a i l . c o m > i will be wait for. keep up. cu...

171 thessalonici voice: Pws na se steiloume mail an den exoume to mail sou ? /Kostas apo FC Crew

172 ela nai. email to: c o d e l u x @ g m a i l . c o m ta leme. elpizw soon. Thessaloniki Voice!

173 I am German and i have some friends in my uni which are from Albania and they are cool and friendly At our College anyone likes them but its so difrent with Greecks they are stupid racist and bid head beter to say they are idiots Grecks most give Chamria to Chams other ways we will help albania to. German brothers now we got new mision with Turks ,USA and Albanias LETS DESTROI ALL BASTARD OF BALLKAN (I MEAN GREECE)

174 hey dude... i know that you are NOT German (deutch). As well i live for many years somewhere out of Stuttgart, near to Reutlingen... i am excacly in Tubingen. I know Turks, Albans and germans. By default Greeks is the ONLY nation ACCEPT by DEUTCH people. As i look arround the german people talk racist about TURKS and ALBANIANS. They have lot joke for them ;-). Every GERMAN hate TURKS. They are dirty and silly. About albans in germany, as well hmmm... is so few... i think does NOT exist. as i am there i know just some. BUT albanians are same everywhere... like greece hehe... i mean about work, they stay home and they do everything you tell them. they have no mind by default. Maybe the albans in germany are different than here. About turks. the only nation who turks trust in germany is the greeks... and you know what they say? is better Greeks than Germans. Turks in germany are not absolutly muslims :-p they live a bit like Christians. Also Germans mortal emeny is the usa. hey you silly bastard albanian! by the way guys... check out him profile! http : // profiles . yahoo . com / kollabani he looks like DEUTSCH????????????????????? God are you LoSt! You want in your dreams to be like them. ALSO, Chams? lol? whats this? Is HPEIROS! remember... an muslim like albania have the CHRISTIAN FLAG of HPEIROS in them FLAG. YOU know what is the sqhip? That 2 heads in bird? means the DOMINUS HELLENIC EMPIRE who look to east and west. that is... :-) absolutly GREEK ablolutly! do you remember 1940? Second World War! You stay home and pray the god to save you till GREEKS come and kick out the NAZIS! then you go out in all albania and you loud GREECE GREECE! if you not...sure your grandparents remeber it. What about a nation that NOT war and what about a nation who before are Christian and after Turks comes they change religions to save them selfs! Lol... we still hold on for years and years. and at last. we make peace and freedom back again to balkan area and we kick out the turks once more. we go till Constantinople and Smyrna and we win! by 1821 Greeks into Hellenic land are just 1 millions. We war 150 man VS 10.000 and we not stop there... :-) This is my litle proud nation that you not know what can do. Greece can take Bulgaria, Skopje and Albania with war at a day. But not do it. Cuz we are peacefull. not like you barbarians. As you see... Other nations like usa make wars cuz have power. if albania have people more than, then will try to make a war. but we not. but we can simple win every power nation. i know if a war happen in greece, lot of people will not go BUT for sure that the little people who will stay, will give all them soul and body to war. and who can stop them? I will remember you and somethin g else. 1955, Cyprus - ELLAS KUPROS ENWCIS! - Some school kids ages arround 16-22 stole some guns from Army and send british whole army to them home. who? Just some kids. Turks army learn to people that can take the Greece if a war after 72 hours. lol, in 72 hours? :-p today is 1 greek vs 8 turks. but before lots years are 1 greek vs 70 turks. but we win 1 to 70. how you thing turkey will take greece after 72 hours when now is 1 to 8 ? NOTE: 25% of turk population are KURDS! and guess! they wait a war to kill for us the half turkey army. Before you talk you must thing dude. GREECE _GREECE MACEDONIA - CYPRUS - CONSTANTINOPLE - HPEIROS - PONDOS - M.ASIA :: are HELLENIC LANDS! THESSALONIKI VOICE! proudly also we keep the HALF army of Hitler more than 2 months with only some guys in ROUPEL! DON'T FORGET... ... WORLD CELEBRATE THE FIRST WIN IN SECOND WORLD WAR WHEN GREEKS MAKE IT AND WIN THE NAZIS-FAIIST AND KICK OUT IN SEA... army should go walk by athens sparta alexandroupoli crete thessaloniki and we meet at GREEK EVER HPEIROS...we see the fasist and nazis, we war them... we kick them and kick them... we not kick them only from greece... we kick out more... we go into albania as albans loud GREECE WIN! and at end we kick out to sea. Thessaloniki Voice! -------------------- kostaleko apo / FC Cyprus. to email einai: < c o d e l u x @ g m a i l . c o m > --------------------- HELLAS.2005

175 c o d e l u x @ g m a i l . c o m i forma de dexete to email sto text logika gia logous spamming. opote kane click ekei pou leei thessaloniki voice! dipla apo to "posted by:" kai tha to deis ok. ta leme.

176 OLOI APO TO GAMESWAY.GR SAS GAMAME ESAS TOUS SKOPIANOUS...SAS GAMAME K TA RIXNOUME PANW STIS MAMADES SAS..

177 GAMIETAI H ALBANIA, H TOURKIA ,TA SKOPIA KAI OI NEKROI TOUS

178 As a proud Albanian, I believe to have my spare part of saying too. 7 years ago as I was vacationing in Greece in a small basketball camp in Pefcohori (spelling), I had the chance to meet a guy and a basketball fellow named Nikos Galis (spelling) As I talked to him about life, basketball and people, I could only see happiness, love and respect in everyone’s eyes. …As years went by, I see that joy, happiness and respect is getting diminished while a new life full of disbelief, anger and "hatred" (note: hate is a reaction to an action) is starting to unveil in the heart of Albania, Tirana(of course, when talking about politics, since there is more of life than just that). As a mushroom cloud directed towards the sky, so is the hatred expended towards every living Albanian. To fast forward….I wonder: why have the people I know, friends, cousins, neighbors, and everyone become like this? Why have I become in the last 30 minutes like them? I believe the answers can be found with some help from one/many of the Greek folks in this blog/ Well, I would like that one of you Greeks put yourself in my shoes/position: a happy reader, proud USMC private (but that don't matter), simple citizen who tries to contribute to his community and read the contents of this page. Why do I feel this fast and increasing anger, hatred of extinction for a Greek race after reading the humiliating and discriminating things? I think it’s harder to make a friend from a stranger than lose that friend. Have I converted to a Greek enemy? I am having second thoughts. One thing is certain: As an Albanian I condemn those Albanians that work and contribute labor to Greece (just as Mexicans do in USA) in exchange for persecution and discrimination (not Mexicans) in return (but I wonder if Albanian emigrants are of Albanian race, since I have traveled every foot and inch of my county, I hope that you agree with me that I know a thing or two about it: Albanians that emigrate in hell, sorry I meant Greece, are %2 of total ppl from South Albania, short, dark called VORIOEPIR(spelling), emigrants from Assyrians empire just as modern day Greece is, emigrants who make a face for the rest of the Albania. I think I have talked enough for not being paid :=) Please, respond as to why should I not “hate” (I mean one of a suicidal kind, please believe) but like Greece? As far as Macedonians, I don’t see a problem of them not liking their own Albanian population, if they want to divide and weaken their county, so be it. Albanians in Macedonia are welcomed, and can unite with the motherland as far as I am concern. By the way, I will boycott my vacation I had scheduled for Santorini. Sorry, I rather contribute my tourist money to Turkey this year and visit Antalya. At lease will go towards a good cause. Statement: TO ALL ALBANIANS, PLEASE BOYCOT (DO NOT BUY) GREEK GOODS UNTIL THINGS CHANGE! TO ALBANIAN EMMIGRANTS IN GREECE: PLEASE RETURN HOME OR IMMIGRATE ANYWHERE ELSE BUT GREECE. TO ALL MY AMERICANS TURKISH AND ALBANIAN BROTHERS:LONG LIVE USA, TURKEY AND ALBANIA (O-ARRNAUTS).

179 blah..blah..blah..again no facts... and let me have a piece of doubt about you meeting or even talking to Galis, while supporting this kind of oppinion towards Greece. Lets make one thing clear. ALL IMMIGRANTS ARE WELLCOMED TO GREECE, as long as they do not think that a piece of our country is theirs... period. I too have friends or known people of Albanian origin or even Turkish origin. Respect is mutual on those cases. However , all of those people react in negative way , when their rights and beliefs are harmed or violated in any way , expesially from people who are prejudiced like you. Your reference to the area as Macedonia , while on diplomatic ways and in general international affairs is still called FYROM , shows how "objective" you are. And something for you. Albania at this point is maintened by Greek investments , on a 45-55% of their national income. If they choose to follwo your suggestions , then they might have problems on even how to live from now on. Not to mention , that almost 600-900.000 Albanian people are living here. As for vacations, i would not suggest Turkey at this point , due to the unfortunate terrorist attacks happening there. (Hope that this will stop, at some point , and i hope that people there will live agian their peacefull lifes) Gandalf

180 PLEASE to all of you balkans, CALM DOWN!!! You must accept that greeks gave to the other nations culture and civilization 2.500 years ago. unfortunately 350 years under the turkish occupation stayed away from other acivities (exploring the world, physics law etc.) Read the following, these are from 2.5 milleniums before, especially from the hand of Alexander: Hellanius presents the father of macedonians, Macedon, is son of Aiolos meaning that he considered them an aeolian greek tride (Hellanius,FGrHist 4,74).Arrian (Arrian,Alexandrou Anavassis 2. 14. 4.) writes that Alexander on his letter to Dareius wrote Your ancestors came in Macedonia and rest of Greece and assaulted us.After i became leader of the Greeks i came to asia to willing to punish Persians.The phrase macedonia and rest of greece is also present in the treaty between Annibas and Philip V (Polybius, 7. 8. 9.).Also in Titus Livius (31. 29. 15.) where he places macedonians among aetolians as greek tribes.Also in Polybius (5. 103. 9.) where Agelaus from Nafpactos wishes to end wars among Aetolians and Macedonians intergreek wars as he names them.The Efessians from an inscription in Efessos (SIG 867, 38-40) ...in the macedonians and the rest Greek tribes... I live in Thessaloniki. This is the name of the sister of Alexander the great. NO ONE MAKEDONIAN would change this name to Solun. Correct me PLEASE if I am wrong. PS. for the albanian neighbours, do you know what does it mean the symbol and the colour of your flag? Also I feel very dissapointed when I see that all your hopes are to Uncle-Sam and in Turkey. Both politicians are very clever(in opposite to the greeks) they don't like you, they just want you to be our enemies for profit.

181 BE GREEK OR DEAD!!! WE FUCKED YOUR ANCESTORS SINCE THE BEGINNING OF HISTORY! Everyone who hates us has a mother working for me in Amsterdam as a Transexual!! Ante Giea

182 HERE ARE SOME PHRASES ABOUT GREEK CIVILIZATION THAT I FOUND ORIGINALLY FROM FOREIGN SITES OF THE INTERNET AND I COPYRIGHTED AND PASTED THEM HERE: Regarded by many as the cradle of Western civilization and the birthplace of democracy, Greece has a long and rich history during which its culture has proven especially influential in Europe, Asia and Africa. # Greece is a country of a rich cultural heritage. Democracy was invented in Athens, Greek culture is the mother of Roman culture and has very much influenced other civilisations. # Ancient Greek culture, particularly as developed in Athens, was the principal source of Western civilization. # Ancient Greece was a great civilization from which came major contributions to present-day society. Greece is the birthplace of the first Olympic games, great minds like Aristotle and Plato, and is home to the breathtaking, ancient architecture of the Acropolis in Athens # Greece is the birthplace of civilization # greece is the cradle of western civilization # http://www.upatras.gr/dsp2002/greece.htm # Greece is the birthplace of the “father of medicine” Hippocrates, who believed the body should be treated as a whole and that food should be medicine # greece is one of the oldest civilizations # greece is the land where the ancient gods chose to reside # The pillar of Western civilization, Greece is the birthplace of democracy and the Olympics, the land of Plato, Sophocles and Homer. Greeks are very proud to show the value of their rich cultural heritage, and Greece has become a popular tourist destination for lovers of old rocks and Mediterranean beaches # Greece is the birthplace of Western civilization, having given rise to reason, philosophy, science and democracy # It is well known that Greece is the birthplace of the Gods and mythic heros, as well as other extraordinary personalities such as poets, rheteurs and philosophers who taught the art of reasoning, and discussion. A country where human beings loved working with their hands to create works of art, in which a large number can still be admired today. # Not surprisingly, Greece is the birthplace of contemporary Mediterranean cuisine. While Greece's gifts to Western culture may need no testimony, many are unfamiliar with the hearty, flavorful dishes originating in the Isles # Greece is the birthplace of one of the world's oldest civilizations, the legacy of which can still be seen in its numerous monuments throughout the country # Greece is the birthplace of western civilization, the place that launched our history, art and philosophy # Greece, of course, is known not only as the birthplace of history and philosophy, but of classic art. # Greece is the birthplace of western wine culture, spreading their appreciation and expertise throughout the Mediterranean over 4,000 years ago # Greece is the birthplace of western art, philosophy and drama. It is the cornerstone of civilisation and wherever you travel there, you will find evidence of a glorious past. Greece offers travellers a unique blend of beautiful Mediterranean landscape, overwhelming history and great hospitality. # Greece (Hellas) is the birthplace of Democracy and modern conventions. Thousands of years ago, Greece had already gained stature as a democracy nation. Hellas is also the birthplace of the Philosophy, Tragedy, Mathematics, Physics and Biology as well as the Olympic Games. A nation with more than three thousand years history! The Classic Years, the Alexandrine and the Roman Period are in perfect harmony with the Greek-Orthodox Spirit of the Byzantine Times as well as with the Neo-Hellenic (i.e.new-Greek) Culture. Greece is the birthplace of Homeros, Pythagoras, Archimedes, Eukleides, Socratis, Plato, Pericles, Sofocles, Democritos, Aristotle and Alexander the Great. On the other hand, the Byzantine Empire was that rescued, developed and spread the Hellenic Civilisation to the other European and Asian Nations. # Greek philosophers and political leaders -- Cleisthenes and Pericles and their successors -- had great influence upon America's Founding Fathers in their creation of these United States. We, as a nation, owe a great debt to Greece. Greece is the birthplace of democracy, as we know it. Thomas Jefferson said, "To the ancient Greeks, we are all indebted for the light which led ourselves (American colonists) out of Gothic darkness." # Greece is the birthplace of democracy. The land that has enriched Western civilization with its history, philosophy and many other academic influences. Geometry, architecture, drama, philanthropy, and music have traveled globally from ancient Greece and have become the foundations of worldly theories, concepts and ideas. Furthermore, the Greek language has enriched other languages with many words. The unique and most delicious Greek cuisine, consists of many specialties, all cooked with care, mastery, love and excellence. The Greek cooking is distinguished with olive oil, herbs, and spices like basil, oregano, daphne, parsley; whilst the original dishes of mousaka, souvlaki and horiatiki salata (to mention a few) decorate each table deliciously. Lastly, let us not forget one of the most important international events which unite each nation in brotherhood, the Olympic Games, born in Greece, 776 B.C. in the spirit of world peace. Each traveler cannot resist the charm of this mystical land. # Greece is the birthplace of the Olympic Games, home of Ulysses, the Argonauts, and hallowed ground to the ancient Olympian gods. Today, a modern infrastructure, new airports, and world-connected communications provide the highest standards of service, both above and below water. A warm, dry climate supports thousands of uninhabited islands surrounded by the cleanest seas in all Europe. People are friendly, traditional, educated, and hospitable. Expect delicious local food, spirited entertainment, and unparalleled sightseeing. # Greece is the birthplace of democracy, theatre, philosophy and sport. # As ancient Greece is the birthplace of democracy, and, indeed the very underpinnings of the American way of life, so too was the American revolution the model for the modern Greek independence movement that began 168 years ago. In fact, Greeks used the United States Declaration of Independence as the archetype for their own declaration. Many American volunteers sailed to Greece to participate in Greece's war for independence. # As Will Durant wrote: Greek civilization is alive * * * it moves in every breath of mind we breath * * * so much of it remains that none of us in one lifetime could absorb it all. Greece is the bright morning star of that Western civilization which is our nourishment and life. Indeed, Percy Bysshe Shelly wrote: We are all Greeks! Our laws, our literature, our religion, our art, have their roots in Greece. Herro hera elefteria! Long live freedom! # Greece is the birthplace of athletics # Greece is the birthplace of philosophy # 4,000 years of history and tradition is revealed in front of your eyes, from Mycenae to Olympia, from the incomparable sculptures of the Golden Age (Acropolis, Delphi) to the Byzantine cultural heritage (Mystras, Meteora). Greece is the birthplace of democracy. It is hard to imagine what civilised life would be like today without the influence of ancient Greece. # Greece is the birthplace of one of the world's oldest and most glorious civilizations # Ancient Greece is the birthplace of the earliest written western theories about physiology (500-300BC). Hippocrates (circa 460-377BC) makes no mention of the spirit. Plato (circa 428-347BC) proposed that mind and body were separate entities # Greece is the birthplace of the greatest philosophers (Socratis, Thales, Plato, Aristotle), the author of the first great European literary work, Homer, the great tragedy writers (Sophocles, Euripides, Aeschylus), the father of medicine Hippocrates and so many others! # As scholars have noted, Greece is the birthplace of the art of rhetoric, grammar, and logic. While "many other ancient civilizations produced literature, only the Greeks produced analytic, expository treatises that attempted to discover the actual bases of human communication" (Murphy & Katula, A Synoptic History of Classical Rhetoric, 1994, p. x). # ancient Greece is the birthplace Western philosophy & science, including astronomy. Yes, I know the Egyptians were astronomers too, but that was mainly in Ptolemeic Egypt, which for all intents and purposes was essentially Greece. Sorry to be so droll, but I answer these questions about ten times a week. # Greece is the birthplace of Western civilization and modern thought. Greece is the home of Aristotle, Plato, Homer, and of the Olympic Games # Greece is the birthplace of mathematics # GREECE IS THE BIRTHPLACE OF DEMOCRACY, THE CREATOR OF SCIENCE AND ART, THE HOME OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION AND THE BEST PART OF EUROPE. .....I think that the only thing can anyone say is ...WOW! So proud to be Hellenas (Greek). PS. All the above were the result of a search in google with the words: ''greece is the birthplace''.

183 boo

184 thessalonici voice is right, we will send you an email soon file! Fuck you germanos, albanee albaaneee then tha gineis ellinnass pote pote! We are tired of you god damn xenovlakes! You say greece and greeks are bad, but have you seen the turks!! We are GODS compared to them! AND compared to you! You are a disgrace to HUMANITY! How dare you say such things about greeks! We INVENTED HUMANITY, and civilization! NOW who is stupid? You wanna join us? FC CREW invites you! Here is our email: lexander812@hotmail.com ///FC Crew2005 FREE CYPRUS CREW AND MAKEDONIA IS GREEk SEE you guys in denmark AAH!

185 btw FYROM doesnt excist it's skopje. Makedonia is greek

186 Screw you greeks. For whatever reason you think REPUBLIC OF MACEDONIA is greek you must be in deep sheet. Take Alexander with you and all his gay acts, we don't need him. We have pride to admit that we have albanians in our country and were proud of that. But you fools deny everything. Maybe one day you will ignore yourselves as well, just to fulfill your twised ideas. So stop pretend being nice too all the world becouse someone will kick your asses real hard. And believe me, that day is not far away.

187 Oh, yes. I almost forgot this. About that "birthplace" thing. Everything alive dies. Please take care of that "birthplace", becouse it may become a graveyard/

188 Oh, yes. I almost forgot this. About that "birthplace" thing. Everything alive dies. Please take care of that "birthplace", becouse it may become a graveyard!!!!

189 HEY U FUCKIN SLAVONIANS BULGS FROM FREAKY SKOPJE I HAVE A MESSAGE FOR YOU!U R NOT MACEDONIANS YOU ARE EX FUCKIN COMNUNISTS A MONGREL NATION WHO CAME WITH YOUR BROTHERS BULGARIANS FROM VOLGA RIVER!YOU ARE TYPICAL MONGOLOIDS AND NOT EUROPEANS!WHEN I C YOUR FUCKIN SHITLAND I C TO MANY POOR MISERABLE CHIEP UGLY FACES!YOU CALL YOUR SELFS AS MACEDONIANS AND U R SHORT BLACK HEADS AND U DONT HAVE TYPICAL GREEK FACES!ITS A SHAME FOR THIS PROUD GREEK DORIAN TRIBE LIKE THE MACEDONIANS WHEN A MONGREL NATION LIKE YOURS ARE TRYING TO STEAL THE GREEK HISTORY AND THE GLORY OF MACEDONIANS!THE CORECT IS ALEKSANDROS AND NOT ALEKSANDAR MAKEDONIA AND NOT MAKEDONIJA MAKEDONAS AND NOT MAKEDONSKA THESSALONIKI AND NOT SOLUN MONASTIRI AND NOT BITOLIJA!UNDERSTAND YOU SISSYS?MACEDONIA WERE HELLENIC 4000 YEARS AGO!GO TO HELL ALL OF U 1,3 MILLION BASTARDS!BY THE WAY U R BULGARIA AND VARDARSKA BADOVINA BAN IS MONGOLOID WORD!

190 Dear Ljupco (is that a macedonian name?? LoL.....AAhh yes! Ljupco was the name of Alexander's cousin...LOL..LOL..)GET SERIOUS GUYS!!! well, yes... greece is the birthplace for so many values, things and important persons. Your answer shows that you have nothing to say mister. greek spirit

191 Listen there are many great nations and greece is one of them they are respectable people and do not fuck their little sisters like the dirty shit albanians and arnt full of child fuckers like the rest of the world when u idiots were swinging from trees fucking ur mothers greeks were writing phiolsophy and inventing democracy and no albanian has the right to degrade any nation they are the worst kind of shit possible no1 in this known earth would trust an albanian we live in england but are not illegal immigrants when was the last time u saw a legal alabanian in uk (oh yeh i bet u any money any albanian in uk works 4 a greek) and has for the turks they are amongst the dirtiest gypsys muslim uncle fuckers in the world AND WHY DO PPL KEEP CALLIN GREEKS GYPSYS DO U SEE THEM SPREAD ACROSS THE EARTH IN EVRY COUNTRY EXCEPT THEIR OWN?? like albanians no wonder they left albania i fuckin wud aswell evry albanian i speak 2 in england either pretends 2 be greek or italian what does that prove it proves that we greeks and italians are the best thing that happend 2 albania and the rest of them no religion goat fuckin countries and by the way i understand why some ppl dnt like greeks becuz of the new generation of yung greeks who are proper pricks but take the time 2 go to greece and see the real greeks te old generation

192 FREE OUR HELLENIC NOTHERN EPIRUS!250000 GREEKS WITH NO RIGHTS! VIVA NAPOLEON ZERVAS THE CHAM KILLER! FREE EPIRUS HEIL INDIPEND EPIRUS!EPIRUS IN GREECE ORTHODOX BELLS IN NOTHERN EPIRUS! THE GREEK CROSS AGAIN IN NOTHERN EPIRUS! WE DONT FORGET OUR NOTHERN EPIRUS!

193 I'VE LIVED IN GREECE FOR 20 YEARS, IN GREECE THERE ARE OVER 1 MILLION ALBANIANS, HOW COME I'VE NEVER MEAT A SMART ONE? I HAVE MEET SOME SMART ONES BUT IT WAS OUTSIDE GREECE... DEN THA GINEIS ELLINAS POTE!

194 I'VE LIVED IN GREECE FOR 20 YEARS, IN GREECE THERE ARE OVER 1 MILLION ALBANIANS, HOW COME I'VE NEVER MEAT A SMART ONE? ..I HAVE MEET SOME SMART ONES BUT IT WAS OUTSIDE GREECE.. 2. I AM MAKEDONIAN, BORN IN MAKEDONIA, SKOPJE IS ANOTHER THING, THINGY'S.. THE "COUNTRY" MAKEDONIA WAS FORM IN THE 30'S BY THE YOGUSLAVIAN LEADERS, WHO WANTED TO TAKE THE GREEK MAKEDONIA. THE ANCIENT MAKEDONIAN SPOOK GREEK- WERE GREEKS- ACTED GREEK.

195 Excuse me... I live in Macedonia but I am not Slav but Greek. Some Slavs are saying that they are Macedonians. Are we relatives???? I don't think so... Some slavs only trying to steal greak history.

196 Excuse me... I live in Macedonia but I am not Slav but Greek. Some Slavs are saying that they are Macedonians. Are we relatives???? I don't think so... Some slavs only trying to steal greek history.

197 You are all ridiculous when fighting about absolutely nothing. All your countries are pretty crappy today but will hopefully rise from poverty one day. Stop fighting and help each other instead.

198 Fuck you, idiot Jonas!

199 ALBANIAN AND AMERICAN ARE BROTHERS. FUCK WITH THE GREECE YOU MOTHERFUCKER GAY NATION AND FUCK WITH THE SLAVS BURNING IN HELL

200 hey joker: till today in hell is the albanians with muslims hehehe, i can't forget how the 200 mujahedin fighter albans and fanatic muslim/islamic fighters run into lake to save them selfs from 15 tigers and super tigers :-p the greek - serbian self army :-D as you see, our 15 Christian fighters send to hell 200 poor poor muslim-albans. :-) We proof our greek spirit... and we can proof it again in the future into another war.

201 thesaloniki voice you son of bitch go to hell and burn the greeks were fucked by the turks hahahahahahahahah.

202 FUCK ALBANIA, FUCK SKOPJE, FUCK TURKEY! Welcome to real world =) FUCK ALBANIA, FUCK SKOPJE, FUCK TURKEY! Welcome to real world =) FUCK ALBANIA, FUCK SKOPJE, FUCK TURKEY! Welcome to real world =) FUCK ALBANIA, FUCK SKOPJE, FUCK TURKEY! Welcome to real world =) FUCK ALBANIA, FUCK SKOPJE, FUCK TURKEY! Welcome to real world =) FUCK ALBANIA, FUCK SKOPJE, FUCK TURKEY! Welcome to real world =) FUCK ALBANIA, FUCK SKOPJE, FUCK TURKEY! Welcome to real world =) FUCK ALBANIA, FUCK SKOPJE, FUCK TURKEY! Welcome to real world =) FUCK ALBANIA, FUCK SKOPJE, FUCK TURKEY! Welcome to real world =) FUCK ALBANIA, FUCK SKOPJE, FUCK TURKEY! Welcome to real world =) FUCK ALBANIA, FUCK SKOPJE, FUCK TURKEY! Welcome to real world =) FUCK ALBANIA, FUCK SKOPJE, FUCK TURKEY! Welcome to real world =) FUCK ALBANIA, FUCK SKOPJE, FUCK TURKEY! Welcome to real world =) FUCK ALBANIA, FUCK SKOPJE, FUCK TURKEY! Welcome to real world =) FUCK ALBANIA, FUCK SKOPJE, FUCK TURKEY! 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203 Greeks and brothers of war( serbians, croats, russians) when euro goes into full affect we will rise and not only spill the blood of turks and albanians but also any anglo saxon scum that has made themselves comfortable on our scared soil, The turks and albanians dont know that Iraq is waiting to rape there and kids, and the Kurds want there heads aswell, so, they too will join in the massacre against them,The Turks spend all there money on military for what? there end is written, only America and NATO stands in the way, no peace for them brothers for they gave our ancestors no peace...and when the day comes to step all over em, lets all rise and ride to glory, cause harmony will return!Love you all. P.S My best friend is Turksih , he knows wher i stand, and we respect eachother because our countries have fought well.